WI : França Antartica / French Brazil

[lotrian]

I was chatting with a Brazilian friend earlier, and come to talk about the french failed colonisation attempts in Brazil during the XVIth Century, which he never heard about : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/France_Antarctique?wprov=sfla1

He wondered what it would be looking like nowadays, and I told him unfortunately my knowledge of colonial societies was too thin to give him even theories.

I am looking for some input of the well-informed people of this forum
My questions are :

- What POD would make it possible for a lasting existence of a french-founded Brazil ? It doesn't have to encompass all of nowadays-Brazil, but a sizeable part at least, half of it being the minimum.
-How would that French-Brazil evolve over the time, and how could its society look like nowadays?
-How would that affect France in return?

 

[LSCatilina]

- What POD would make it possible for a lasting existence of a french-founded Brazil ? It doesn't have to encompass all of nowadays-Brazil, but a sizeable part at least, half of it being the minimum.

You'd need several PoDs

- Neither Spain or Portugal was never, ever, going to accept or tolerate a French holding so close to their territories, especially with a strong Protestant presence. That was a no-go. So you need a PoD that would cripple Iberian kingdoms just enough to prevent them to do anything in this region : that only is a tall order.

-You'd also need an incitative for colonizing the Antartique in France itself. Basically you need avoid the percieved threat that french colonization would be an harbour for religious/political factionalism, namely for Protestants. Basically a stabler France able to deal more decisively with what caused the Wars of Religions, probably at the Protestent general expense. Survival of Henri II might be useful.

-How would that French-Brazil evolve over the time, and how could its society look like nowadays?

Frankly, given the crazy geopolitical situation it's in, it would either fail anyway, or giving PoDs are in full effect, the situation would be at least significantly changed enough for the region not be that reckognizable.

If I had to give my two cents, I'd see France Antartique turning into some sort of equivalent of the french colonial model in Antillas, as in cash-crops and slavery.

 

[Ricard (i.e. Rdffigueira)]

As always, I agree with LSCatilina's points.

There is a persistent (but baseless) myth in Brazil that we'd somehow be better off if the French or the Dutch colonization had attempts of the 16th and 17th Centuries had succeeded. French colonization did wonders for Haiti and the Guyana, and the same can be said about the Dutch in Suriname and Indonesia...

Anyways, I don't know about the necessary POD to have France Antarctique survive, unless a complete Portugal-screw (and likely a Spanish one, as they were an even greater threat to French interests in the west), as my friend Catilina said above.

Regarding how a Franco-Brazilian society would develop, I guess it would be indeed similar to the Antilles or the Spanish colonies in South America, with a white-European minority ruling over a creolized population that, at least for some generations, would have an important Lusophone component, and a substantial slave population. I doubt the French would be more humane to indigenous peoples or African captives than the Portuguese, so I expect that they would largely suffer the same fate.

The most interesting divergences might be the ones regarding France's geopolitical situation. With profitable colonial enterprises in the Equator and in the West Indies, it will have much less incentive to colonize Canada and Louisana than IOTL, so we might see an even less significant French presence in North America, which thus results in an even more present British and (why not) Spanish presence there. This also means that in the long run Spain might be a more significant threat to France than IOTL due to the colonial disputes in South America.

I also imagine that the existence of a French Brazil will eventually drive France more towards African colonization, as a means to secure the transatlantic slave trade (much like Portugal did with Angola and Mozambique), which produces other cascades of divergences even more interesting. Depending on the resources invested in these foreign expansions, its interesting to think what might be of France' expansion inside Europe during the Valois and Bourbon regimes; either they might be less aggressive due to the focus on Atlantic adventures, or they might be even more frequent, due to the influx of resources and riches from colonial exploitation.

This might also force France to develop a naval ambition on par with Spain and England/Britain and the Netherlands, considering that a colonial empire must have a dependable navy to be secured against foreign threats.

 

[Viriato]

I imagine that any French colony would be mostly used for the production of sugar, and like Portuguese Brazil it would become the world's leading sugar producer. I can also imagine that in wars with England, it would be a target for attacks and or conquest. As mentioned above I imagine that there would be a smaller European population due to the French crown being against depopulating the kingdom. The French might not bother establishing colonies in the West Indies as Brazil can produce sugarcane and tobacco in sufficient quantities. The French were also big at trading slaves from Loango, and this area would become important for them. Without Brazil, the Portuguese might not even establish settlements in Angola, and focus more energy on East Africa and Asia of course. The island of Saint Helena might become a permanent Portuguese way station.

 

[Galba Otho Vitelius]

A few points each on possible PODs and possible effects..

On the POD, France has to be understood as the great runner up in the colonization of the Americas. France was the strongest continental European power with a sizable naval presence. But it did not have the first mover advantage of Spain and Portugal, and it did not have the advantage of England of no continental commitments.

So they were beaten by Spain to Mexico and Peru, the Spanish simply got there first, likewise by Portugal to Brazil, and the English beat them to the more temperate seaboard of continental North America. The French wound up with sloppy seconds all of the map, Canada, Louisiana, the Antilles, and their foothold in South America.

If France gets in first they go for Mexico, so that POD is out. You can't wave away the continental commitments. So there are three ways to get them into Brazil:

1. They manage to grab some territory there and just hold on, while Portugal still gets most of Brazil. So the French get what became Rio de Janeiro, with the Portuguese taking everything from Espiritu Santo north and most of Minas. This comes at the cost of a French colony elsewhere, probably Louisiana and Guinea, and has substantial butterflies, not least that Portuguese Brazil does not include Rio de Janeiro and probably not the other southeastern states, except Minas, as well. This is the most interesting scenario.

2. Portugal does not go into Brazil in a big way, maybe going into what became Bahia but nothing more. This could happen with a Portugal screw, or with the Braganzas gaining and uniting with Castille, which as the effect that the Portuguese just join in with the Castilian colonization efforts and are not interested in developing Brazil. The Dutch still go into Pernambucu, but France moves into the vacuum in the southeast. This probably means all of Frances's colonization efforts go into Brazil -what do they need the Antilles for- they they probably still go into the Gulf of St. Laurence for the beaver pelts and the fish.

3. The French government makes a strategic decision to concentrate their colonization efforts somewhere, so they try to take over Brazil and forget about the other efforts. This is unlikely and didn't exactly work for the Dutch, so we can discount this.

On the effects, they have to give up on their efforts someplace else to make any of these happens, so you get butterflies from that. Even if they go into Canada, they may not wind up defending it as effectively as IOTL. In French Brazil, expect things to go much better with the Indians, much worse for the African slaves, and a somewhat more educated but more ruthless colonial elite. And everything will go screwy when the French revolution hits, if it hits at all, in scenario #2 the monarchy now has its hands on the gold mines.

 

[GauchoBadger]

I imagine that any French colony would be mostly used for the production of sugar, and like Portuguese Brazil it would become the world's leading sugar producer. I can also imagine that in wars with England, it would be a target for attacks and or conquest. As mentioned above I imagine that there would be a smaller European population due to the French crown being against depopulating the kingdom. The French might not bother establishing colonies in the West Indies as Brazil can produce sugarcane and tobacco in sufficient quantities. The French were also big at trading slaves from Loango, and this area would become important for them. Without Brazil, the Portuguese might not even establish settlements in Angola, and focus more energy on East Africa and Asia of course. The island of Saint Helena might become a permanent Portuguese way station.

Actually, the main export of Brazil's southeastern region is coffee.

2. Portugal does not go into Brazil in a big way, maybe going into what became Bahia but nothing more. This could happen with a Portugal screw, or with the Braganzas gaining and uniting with Castille, which as the effect that the Portuguese just join in with the Castilian colonization efforts and are not interested in developing Brazil.

Not really. The iberian union was actually the main reason for Brazil's official westward expansion, as the Treaty of Tordesillas was revoked during that time.

 

[Viriato]

Coffee was not introduced to Brazil until the 18th century, and did not become a major export until the 1820s, and only surpassed sugar during the 1830s. Sugar was the principal export crop with Brazil being the world's major sugar producer from around 1570 until around 1650. This is what made the Dutch want to occupy Pernambuco (the major sugar growing region). The occupation led to sugar production to increase in the south in Espirito Santo and Rio de Janeiro, with the latter producing nearly one-third of Brazil's sugar by 1700 (400,000 arrobas).

With regards to the Tordesillas Line, it was never really abrogated even during the period of the Iberian Union. The bandeirantes whom ventured inland were largely like frontier settlers of other regions. They ventured inland from São Paulo looking for Indian slaves. Southern Brazil was poorer and its economy was largely based on ranching, with the paulistas and bandeirantes venturing further inland searching for slaves and mineral wealth. This movement had begun before the union, but picked up steam during the 17th century. The Spanish Crown had attempted to put a stop to this by issuing decrees to end enslavement of Indians as they were attacking Jesuit missions in Spanish territory. After 1640 the Portuguese Crown was weak and in no position to stop the movement inland. With the stagnation of the sugar economy due to competition from the Antilles between 1650-1690, the movement inland only increased. Even then, Portuguese maps showed Brazil as consisting of regions east of the Tordesillas Line. The reality was that crown authority was weak to nonexistent in these regions, only the discovery of gold would lead to the crown effectively occupying the interior.

 

[Guilherme Loureiro]

Actually, the main export of Brazil's southeastern region is coffee.

That doesn't mean sugar isn't important; there's a reason why the flag of Rio de Janeiro state has both a coffee bush branch and a sugarcane... branch?...plant? on it. Also, coffee only got established in Brazil in the 1840s-50s IIRC; in the 1500s-1600s sugar would have been the main product of the expanded Antarctic France.

Not really. The iberian union was actually the main reason for Brazil's official westward expansion, as the Treaty of Tordesillas was revoked during that time.

Not revoked, ignored(also, it wasn't as if the Spanish colonial authorities could enforce the Tordesillas line); Tordesillas would only be revoked by the 1750 Treaty of Madrid, and reinstated by the 1757(IIRC) Treaty of El Pardo, which revoked the Treaty of Madrid.