Planetocopia Map Thread

[naraht]

For a planet that isn't a rotation of ours....

Take our earth and remove Antarctica, take that land (at appropriate heights and fill in the Arctic Ocean. My guess in terms of amount of land is it will fill in the Bering Strait and essentially to the line connecting Canadian Coast, Newfoundland, Greenland, Iceland, Northern Scotland, Norway...

Net effects on the planet?

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

I was meaning to go compare this to the last version, but it turns out that imgur has deleted it! You wouldn't happen to have it saved anywhere?

This:

It’s definitely tighter than this one was for sure, a possible exception being western Iberia now I think about it.

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

A response on Molotov's DA to a specific region of Retrograde Earth. I think these snapshots are helpful in guessing about the kind of environments that would exist in this timeline and how local flora and fauna would be adapted to them or have to evolve at least.

We've also been mind-mapping with Retro ice age would look like in more detail, including more local trends and changes in orbit.

 

[Linbot]

A response on Molotov's DA to a specific region of Retrograde Earth. I think these snapshots are helpful in guessing about the kind of environments that would exist in this timeline and how local flora and fauna would be adapted to them or have to evolve at least.

We've also been mind-mapping with Retro ice age would look like in more detail, including more local trends and changes in orbit.

Oh yeah I've been meaning to ask, are there any maps of January/July temperatures for the retrograde simulation? I feel like the Köppen categories don't capture this too well, for example Heihe in northern Manchuria gets to -21 C in winter while Moscow only gets to -6 despite being in the same temperature zone.

 

[Gabingston]

A response on Molotov's DA to a specific region of Retrograde Earth. I think these snapshots are helpful in guessing about the kind of environments that would exist in this timeline and how local flora and fauna would be adapted to them or have to evolve at least.

We've also been mind-mapping with Retro ice age would look like in more detail, including more local trends and changes in orbit.

Seems a bit like Central Asia, not the first time I've said that about Retrograde/Turnovia's American Midwest.

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

Oh yeah I've been meaning to ask, are there any maps of January/July temperatures for the retrograde simulation? I feel like the Köppen categories don't capture this too well, for example Heihe in northern Manchuria gets to -21 C in winter while Moscow only gets to -6 despite being in the same temperature zone.

Well,

This is a map of everything 22C or above in August, done by Jack.
Otherwise the study video data shows you approximately what is what. Now, as said there he doesn’t trust the data fully as he moderated the temperatures in the Midwest and southern USA to be less extreme, but it’s still useful.

This is January temperatures for prograde and retrograde side by side, albeit with preindustrial conditions in place. As you can see, North America for the most part isn’t too far off, as is shbsaharan Africa, but Eurasia, South America and Australia are considerably different.

Another note is that in terms of the continental-temperate divide, we use the American 0C rather than the European -3C as an average for the coldest month as the cutoff point, so keep that in mind.

I believe Molotov’s predictions for other places are the same. The preindustrial prograde is 1.1C cooler on average than otl currently is, so I’m not sure how exactly that might change local temperatures, but if a place has one season similar but another considerably higher or lower, then it could dramatically alter the type of environment present. See much of Britain only being slightly cooler in summer but far harsher in winter. Meanwhile half of Sakhalin registers as temperate, whereas in otl even the southern tip averages -12C in January.

Seems a bit like Central Asia, not the first time I've said that about Retrograde/Turnovia's American Midwest.

Indeed you did, ahead of the curve in that sense haha.

Another idea we had was something like this;

Comparing the closest otl analogies we can find to see where is the most equivalent.

 

[Linbot]

Well,

This is a map of everything 22C or above in August, done by Jack.
Otherwise the study video data shows you approximately what is what. Now, as said there he doesn’t trust the data fully as he moderated the temperatures in the Midwest and southern USA to be less extreme, but it’s still useful.

This is January temperatures for prograde and retrograde side by side, albeit with preindustrial conditions in place. As you can see, North America for the most part isn’t too far off, as is shbsaharan Africa, but Eurasia, South America and Australia are considerably different.

Another note is that in terms of the continental-temperate divide, we use the American 0C rather than the European -3C as an average for the coldest month as the cutoff point, so keep that in mind.

I believe Molotov’s predictions for other places are the same. The preindustrial prograde is 1.1C cooler on average than otl currently is, so I’m not sure how exactly that might change local temperatures, but if a place has one season similar but another considerably higher or lower, then it could dramatically alter the type of environment present. See much of Britain only being slightly cooler in summer but far harsher in winter. Meanwhile half of Sakhalin registers as temperate, whereas in otl even the southern tip averages -12C in January.


Indeed you did, ahead of the curve in that sense haha.

Have I mentioned how much I despise the Mollweide projection? I'm convinced that anyone who uses it is doing so intentionally to their work from advancing the field of human knowledge.

It's not a valid input in gprojector!!!

Also me on my way to use kelvin for climatology for some reason.

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

Also me on my way to use kelvin for climatology for some reason.

I mean I guess it’s objective in that sense, though certainly Celsius would be more convenient, or even Fahrenheit for more precision since the degrees in question are smaller. I’m sorry it’s not the easiest one to read, it certainly wasn’t for us.

And let’s not even get started on the weird system they use to measure precipitation

 

[naraht]

Well,

This is a map of everything 22C or above in August, done by Jack.
Otherwise the study video data shows you approximately what is what. Now, as said there he doesn’t trust the data fully as he moderated the temperatures in the Midwest and southern USA to be less extreme, but it’s still useful.

This is January temperatures for prograde and retrograde side by side, albeit with preindustrial conditions in place. As you can see, North America for the most part isn’t too far off, as is shbsaharan Africa, but Eurasia, South America and Australia are considerably different.

Another note is that in terms of the continental-temperate divide, we use the American 0C rather than the European -3C as an average for the coldest month as the cutoff point, so keep that in mind.

I believe Molotov’s predictions for other places are the same. The preindustrial prograde is 1.1C cooler on average than otl currently is, so I’m not sure how exactly that might change local temperatures, but if a place has one season similar but another considerably higher or lower, then it could dramatically alter the type of environment present. See much of Britain only being slightly cooler in summer but far harsher in winter. Meanwhile half of Sakhalin registers as temperate, whereas in otl even the southern tip averages -12C in January.


Indeed you did, ahead of the curve in that sense haha.

Another idea we had was something like this;

Comparing the closest otl analogies we can find to see where is the most equivalent.

Have to keep reminding me that Delhi is near the line of BSh and Cfa. In my head New Delhi is far wetter than it actually is.

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

Speculative Geography Discord server link for those interested;
https://discord.gg/PFQANu92cR
We are considering a YouTube channel as well, by the way

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

Have to keep reminding me that Delhi is near the line of BSh and Cfa. In my head New Delhi is far wetter than it actually is.

Well, it would be more accurate to say Cwa, as it does have a winter dry season, but it is relatively dry by the standards of that habitat type, which sometimes can be very wet in summer.

One aspect I'm fascinated with regards to alternate or speculative geography is biogeography; ie how would particular organisms deal with climatic changes and how might their distributions change as a result. Is anyone else here interested in that kind of thing?

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

here’s some study data gone through me, the opposite of Molotov’s northern hemisphere summer temperatures comparison. For this one, black signifies areas with an average January (coolest month in most of the northern hemisphere) temperature at or below -18C or 255K. Left is prograde and right is retrograde, naturally, and both with preindustrial conditions.

Molotov also did one where the coolest month averages at or above 5C in January, a boundary where most palm trees are capable of tolerating (there’s one or 2 species that can survive as low as 2C for the coolest month). Compare this with his blue hot summer map to see prime places for palm trees growing.

 

[Gabingston]

If January averages 5°C in Portugal, Galicia and Andalusia, why do the non coastal areas have a continental climate in V6 (coastal areas too north of Lisbon)?

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

If January averages 5°C in Portugal, Galicia and Andalusia, why do the non coastal areas have a continental climate in V6 (coastal areas too north of Lisbon)?

You'd have to ask MolotovJack, but he did say the Prograde simulation simultaneously shows northern Japan as being too mild in winter compared to otl, whereas British Columbia isn't mild enough.

Speaking of mild winter climates in the northern hemisphere. ,
This map with preindustrial conditions shows places where the average January temperature is between -3 and 2C, or at least average in terms of the areas within each square (for reference, Vladivostok and lake Kalka are in the same square, though the latter is 7C cooler in January than the former in reality, so the average is definitely skewered in this case).

And this one shows average January temperatures between 2 and 17C, definitely temperate but not warm enough to be fully tropical in the northern hemisphere. Gives an idea of what could live where.

And a bonus one: One where hardy cold-adapted species of bamboo would be capable of living in, with areas too dry for them having already been removed due to common sense (actually after screenshotting this, Xinjiang and most of Mongolia would be too dry as well). By cold-adapted, I mean species capable of surviving winter temperatures between -11 to 7C, which is actually milder than the northernmost bamboo species in otl, Sasa kurilensis found in southern Sakhalin and the southern Kurils (possibly northern Hokkaido too) is capable of living in, as that can live with January averages as low as -12 or even -13C (even the warmest month in Sakhalin only averages 17C). Even the northernmost parts of outer Manchuria, between the Amur and the Stanavoys, and even a small sliver north of the Stanavoys, have an average January temp between 265-270K or -8 to -3C, while having similar to otl August temperatures of 16-17C.

 

[FitzEmpress]

Where would the Poles have to be located for temperate climates (Mediterranean, subtropical and oceanic) to be the most common climate types?

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

Where would the Poles have to be located for temperate climates (Mediterranean, subtropical and oceanic) to be the most common climate types?

Interesting question. That seems more like cooler global temperatures, but the orientation of the continents would affect how much is temperate vs continental. So it could be a cooler or warmer world, hard to tell. Hothouse worlds tend to have lots of subtropical land at higher latitudes and temperate at very high latitudes, with an expanded tropical zone as well.

 

[FitzEmpress]

Interesting question. That seems more like cooler global temperatures, but the orientation of the continents would affect how much is temperate vs continental. So it could be a cooler or warmer world, hard to tell. Hothouse worlds tend to have lots of subtropical land at higher latitudes and temperate at very high latitudes, with an expanded tropical zone as well.

Maybe in a scenario where some region of Central Asia was the South Pole? maybe Tibet, Afghanistan or Kazakhstan?

 

[Linbot]

View attachment 894823here’s some study data gone through me, the opposite of Molotov’s northern hemisphere summer temperatures comparison. For this one, black signifies areas with an average January (coolest month in most of the northern hemisphere) temperature at or below -18C or 255K. Left is prograde and right is retrograde, naturally, and both with preindustrial conditions.

Molotov also did one where the coolest month averages at or above 5C in January, a boundary where most palm trees are capable of tolerating (there’s one or 2 species that can survive as low as 2C for the coolest month). Compare this with his blue hot summer map to see prime places for palm trees growing.

Something I've been thinking about is that northern Manchuria and southwestern Siberia did not become core regions of complex states until the modern period even though their mean annual temperatures are not so harsh and they have temperate climates and are river plains which today host large population centres. However something that both of these regions do have are very harsh winter temperatures, so my hypothesis is that this is the best explanation. The dividing line appears to be somewhere around -15 to -18 C.

 

[Forbiddenparadise64]

Something I've been thinking about is that northern Manchuria and southwestern Siberia did not become core regions of complex states until the modern period even though their mean annual temperatures are not so harsh and they have temperate climates and are river plains which today host large population centres. However something that both of these regions do have are very harsh winter temperatures, so my hypothesis is that this is the best explanation. The dividing line appears to be somewhere around -15 to -18 C.

I’m guessing that the partly filled in black is places on the line between 255-262K, given the line there, which honestly is pretty mild compared to the places in black, though I may be wrong. Now the entire Okhost coastline and even Chutokta is above this threshold.

In this world, conditions are quite a bit more favourable in at least the former region, not so much the latter though. Northern Manchuria is also wetter on average than otl, with no winter dry season (on top of said winter being much more forgiving), so that also helps ecologically. Heck, the temperate bamboo map suggests that a small sliver of Okhost coastline north of the Stanavoys (near the sea at least) averages -11C or higher in the coolest month, similar to our Baltic.

Not sure what the closest real life analogy is the Amur in this timeline based on the map. The mouth of the river seems to be below -3C in January (at least it seems as shown by the green boundary map, though it could be very close,) but far above the -21C of otl or even the -10C of the Sasa durability map.

 

[RaptorWolf]

Here's a challenge I've had in mind--Pangaea Proxima in retrograde.