And also bad wording on my part what meant to ask if the drop in military spending as a percentage to gdp is due less money spent overall or is just the percentage droping because the gdp is growing
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Also Eretria in Larisa since the 1880s. Not certain when Vourinos as well start being exploited.Other than the greater greek GDP and arms procurement expenditure, it is worth mentioning the TTL trade balance. It has been mentioned already that Greece got an important grain producing region (east Thrace). The hard currency used in OTL to import wheat, can now be used to import machinery and arms.
Drachma is stronger in TTL and capital is more available. This might produce various butterflies. For example, there has been a new railroad that connects Kozani and Kalampaka. A railroad that spans south of Kozani could be very important for developing the local chrome deposits. Vourinos Mountain contains valuable chrome deposits. In OTL Greece was an important chromite ore producer (8th biggest in the world) and the 7th biggest exporter. In 1938, 42k tons of ore were produced and all of them exported. As far as I know, all the production was located in Domokos.
Some would be locally used yes. But Greek steel production will be necessarily limited, somewhere ~100,000t a year by 1938 compared to 276,000t a year for Romania, 235,000t for Yugoslavia and 38,000t in 1940 for Turkey. (OTL Greece was at 15,000t having just entered the game) Of course as always finished products are worth more than raw materials.In TTL there is a greek steel industry so part of the production won't be exported. There are greater motivations now to develop more chromite mines: the need to service the local industry while exporting as much as possible in order to get hard currency for arms imports and to pay off the new Kozani Kalampaka Line. Granted the deposits are just south of Kozani, but I guess even that would mean additional income.
Exports at the time the war ended. Post war there was quite a bit a change in the geographic distribution of Turkish tobacco production with quite a lot coming from regions not as prominent before 1922. Losing most of the trained manpower who where Greeks hardly hurt either...A more important Greece, both strategically since it is the local Power to protect the Straits and economically (greater strategic raw resources output) might mean that Greece takes the position of OTL Turkey in the Allied strategic thinking, at least in 1939 and 1940. The means greater purchases of greek tobacco and dried fruit (raisins, figs) and privision of materiel. That means something like the OTL quantites delivered to Turkey. I have print screened a few pages from Hillman's "The ill-made alliance". All rights belong to the author and publishers.
At the same time, the author mentioned that the OTL turkish tobacco exports to USA, belongs now to Asiatic Greece. This can be translated into the OTL turkish purchases of american material namely the 18 Martin 139s and 50 Curtiss Hawk. In a similar spirit the OTL turkish order for 80 czech 150mm guns, can become an order for 80 105mm guns, if the Greeks don't want to add another caliber to their collection.
Gradually to an extend... then you short of can see the very faded divides even in the present day so I wouldn't much hold my breath over the speed of overcoming the differences.With war looming over the horizon and the 1936 elections coming to Greece, that will be an important electoral campaign, especially if there is a consensus.
If rearmament and preparation for war dominates all other topics, then is there a chance the polarization of the 1920s between venizelists and royalists gradually fades through that consensus, with some government of national union being possible in 1940?
How on earth did I miss it? Pulawski survives! We may end up with better polish aircraft. Case White may cause more casualties to the Luftwaffe.PZL's chief designer Zygmunt Pulawski, was currently visiting Athens to oversee ironing out the last details for local production to begin
Here's an overview of the Greek Army in 1940-1941 if that helps.Hey i know that is a bit to much to explain but can someone explain to me the structure of the greek army in ww2 i mean the division structure and regiments and the men that a division had and such? It would help me to understand how the greek army would be like when fully mobilised
It has been quite helpful in understanding the organisation of the greek army iotl and has helped me to better understand the difference of ttl greek army and otlHere's an overview of the Greek Army in 1940-1941 if that helps.
Lets just say I'm wary of air accidents happening on schedule 10+ years post POD...How on earth did I miss it? Pulawski survives! We may end up with better polish aircraft. Case White may cause more casualties to the Luftwaffe.
That applied to many in the interwar period. Size wise the HAF is rather closer to the projected numbers at its creation than OTL.A few thoughts on the future of the Hellenic Air Force. In TTL, the HAF starts with more planes to begin with and a bigger industrial base (KEA). It doesn't matter that the current models are completely outdated. What matters is that there are bound to be more trained aircrew already and the greater availability of machines, would mean that the Greeks can train in tactics at squadron level. From the little I know so far, Greek pilots had many flight hours experience but they were woefully untrained in tactics. Therefore, I think that in TTL the trained manpower will be more numerous and of better quality.
Possibly. After all the Mistral Major was quite widely licenced around Europe. Then Pulawski personally preferred inline engines and also Greece was a good trade balance with the United States and has been paying her war loans to the US hence licencing R1830 is an obvious alternative.Pulawski surviving is absolutely wonderful for Greece. It could mean a better PZL 24. Add in the production license and you can see a HAF fielding 90 of them by 1940 (I am using the OTL turkish-owned number of machines). The main constraint would be engines. By the way, what engine have you chosen? I think I smell a Gnome-Rhône.
That's going a bit ahead of the times, although I note that the idea of pulling back to the Olympus if needed existed back in 1918. But in terms of planning for a general European war in 1935, under which scenario Greece would expect having to retreat back to the Olympus? France falling looks ASB, Italy knocking out Yygoslavia and then also invading Greece appears difficult as long as France is in the fight tying up a significant part of the Italian army. The only reasonable scenario is a joint Yugoslav-Bulgarian invasion but the Yugoslavs are supposed to be allies... although someone almost certainly has a plan of operations for the eventuality just in case, that's what general staffs are for,I have a last thought to share. We know that Venizelos was a huge admirer of the work of Thucydides. In TTL he find himself PM in a Greece that could be attacked by Italy, Turkey and Bulgaria at the same time, with a neutral Yugoslavia. I do wonder if he would decide that perhaps "Long Walls" are needed, a National Redoubt. The Greeks operate already with that assumption in Greece-in-Asia with the Smyrna Fortified Zone, so the concept already exists. The Olympus-Pindus Line provides such an excellent redoubt with a fallback position in Thermopylae. Venizelos may feel that in the worst case, he can be besieged behind mountain ranges while he waits for the Naval Powers to win the war. Naturally, it would be political suicide to start building fortifications in the middle of the country. But quiet staff work can be prepared in time. Careful and detailed survey of the area for artillery ranges, trenches, obstacles. A few macadam roads can be opened to service the potential frontline. Then, as dark winds are rising, some slow and quiet work can start. If Italy and Turkey attack at the same time or close to the same time, I expect the Greek Army to fight along the borders for as long as possible, while engineers are building the mountain bastion of the OTL Olympus-Venetikos-Pindus Line.
Generally speaking nearly everyone in Europe at the time had standardised into "triadic" divisions, as the standard organization ie one infantry division of 3 infantry regiments with three infantry battalions each with 1 (or two in the case of the French) artillery regiments in support. There is a notable exception in the Italians who switched to a binary division of 2 infantry regiments. Proved a bad idea.Hey i know that is a bit to much to explain but can someone explain to me the structure of the greek army in ww2 i mean the division structure and regiments and the men that a division had and such? It would help me to understand how the greek army would be like when fully mobilised
This one has so many errors it's not even funny. Niehorster as usual is quite a bit betterHere's an overview of the Greek Army in 1940-1941 if that helps.
Thank you, Greece isn't a country whose Army I've really researched much, I just remembered seeing that. Those sources are much better.This one has so many errors it's not even funny. Niehorster as usual is quite a bit better
Royal Hellenic Armed Forces
Then you have this https://ww2greece.wargaming.info/TOandEs.htm for infantry division, infantry regiment and artillery regiment.
I would guess that a war were Italy attacks through Albania (they already have Valona), Bulgaria from the north and Turkey from the east. Nobody would expect France to fall, certainly. But France could be tied by Germany, or France could be unwilling to launch a campaign against mainland Italy. In that case, the war against Italy would be one of attrition to blockade it into submission while French and British gobble up the italian colonies.But in terms of planning for a general European war in 1935, under which scenario Greece would expect having to retreat back to the Olympus?
That could do it but as mentioned greece is already planning for an event like this and for what from what i understand the plan is to conduct a fighting retreat in Asia minor,slow the Bulgarians as much as possible while the army's mobilization is underway and strike at the Italian basesI would guess that a war were Italy attacks through Albania (they already have Valona), Bulgaria from the north and Turkey from the east. Nobody would expect France to fall, certainly. But France could be tied by Germany, or France could be unwilling to launch a campaign against mainland Italy. In that case, the war against Italy would be one of attrition to blockade it into submission while French and British gobble up the italian colonies.
I have no idea about metallurgy and engineering to ascertain which artillery pieces are easier to manufacture. But mortars seem to be easy to manufacture. The yugoslav arsenal at Kragujevac was building 81mm mortars under license.Hmm locally made mortars and artillery this can be only good although i wonder if greece can manufacture the EPK machine gun or something like that in the near future
What about Sub-Engineer Schools? For decades those schools were the source of a major part of the greek industrial workforce.At the same time training would need to be much expanded as well. From the coming school year both the number of technicians trained in the Sivitanideios technical school and the number of engineering students entering the National Technical University of Athens and the Technical school in the Ionian University in Smyrna would need to be much increased while scholarships would be provided to train a number of engineers and technicians outside Greece if arrangements could be made.
So.... thus far there are 12,000 more italian casualties. Not bad, not bad at all! What was the OTL cost of the war until May 1936 ?Addis Ababa fell to the advancing Italian army. Emperor Haile Selassie was able to flee to Djibuti ahead of the Italians, from there he would flee to Europe appearing before the general assembly of the League of Nations in Geneva and setting up a court in exile in Britain. Back in Ethiopia resistance continued under the leadership of the emperor's cousin Imre Haile Selassie but with the emperor gone and the capital fallen the Italians could declare victory, even though nearly half the country was still free and it would take several more years to "pacify" it. For Mussolini it was a great victory bringing his popularity within Italy at its peak but had come at a steep cost. Itallian casualties were nearly 66,000 men while war costs had reached a staggering 33.5 million, by comparison the two Littorio class battleships under construction, the costliest ever built in Italy, were not going to exceed 800 million lire each.