AHC: Make Cadillac a serious competitor of German car brands

[Masked Grizzly]

A better approach would have been to establish a European division of Cadillac via an earlier TASC (by way of an expanded Vauxhall-Opel-Holden / VOH Interchangeability Programme), which would serve as another approach to helping further integrate Vauxhall and Opel at an earlier stage beyond the OTL Opel Kadett A / Vauxhall Viva HA and common OHV engine (in terms of platforms if not in engines).

The ATL European Cadillac division would encompass a three car from the flagship Opel KAD A/B (aka Diplomat A/B) derived model, followed by a mid-range V platform (aka Rekord C) model and entry-level SWB V platform based model (as Vauxhall considered with the Cerian proposal during the U car project that became the mk1 Vauxhall Cavalier / Opel Ascona B).

Engines would be a trickier matter for the European market Cadillac range though approving the Vauxhall Slant-Four based Vauxhall V8 petrol / diesel would be a start (so GM Europe has its own V8 engine in the same way the Aussies developed the Holden V8). Opel already had the CiH inline-6, yet what was really needed IMHO was either an earlier European version of the OTL GM 60-degree V6 to better challenge the Ford Essex (UK) / Cologne (Germany) V6 engines (and like the latter putting out more power in less emissions strangled non-US form), or a 90-degree V6 derived from the Vauxhall V8 engine.

Another idea that draws upon the Chevrolet 153 4-cylinder (plus smaller Opel K 180 via Chevrolet 110 unit) and Chevrolet Straight-6 based Pontiac OHC-6, would be to develop a smaller 1.6/1.7-2.0-litre 4-cylinder / 2.5-3-litre 6-cylinder OHC/DOHC engine family for the mid-range and entry-level European Cadillacs (that is still related to the aforementioned engines yet further developed).

The non-European versions could make use of SBC V8 and GM 90-degree V6 (ideally all-alloy) or Oldsmobile V8 and related V6 engines, depending on how GM in the US goes about rationalising the engine ranges of their various US marques in ATL.

A Cadillac V12 was looked at during the 1960s, however power and low-speed torque barely topped Cadillac’s existing 7.0-liter V-8 with debate on whether the V12 had a 60-degree angle or a 90-degree angle. Either way not consideration was given to making the V12 a modular design. - https://www.hagerty.com/media/autom...2-engine-of-the-future-never-made-production/

Ideally the styling language for the 1970s-1980s European Cadillac trio would draw upon the 1976 Vauxhall VX Prestige prototype (below) prior to evolving into a less Americanized version of the OTL fourth/fifth generation Seville.

 

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

An M or AMG analogue would have also been most useful, though a racing spec 170 mph ‘90s Fleetwood with top of the line handling, brakes, and an unholy engine (think Dodge Viper) is kind of terrifying.

Heck, they could even play off the trope by having ads with an upper crust grandma who then goes absolutely wild running circles around BMWs.

They do have that. That's called the V Series and they are just as good or even better than their German counterparts.

 

[SealTheRealDeal]

In Europe Corvettes and Cameros are sold at Cadillac dealerships; are they also rebadged as Cadillacs as well or do they still have the Chevy Bowtie?

 

[Carl Schwamberger]

As an aside, I had a 2004 DeVille (last year for the name, before the line got 'initialed' and the DeVille became the "DTS", DeVille Touring Sedan) and it was a great car. I took it on a summer trip through the mountains of West Virginia, Virginia and North Carolina, with the cruise control set a 70 mph and the climate control set at 65 degree F, and it STILL got 27 miles per gallon out of the Northstar V-8!

Meh.. In 2008 a friend & I took a road trip from Indiana to Rockville MD. Drove a 2006 Prius electric. The thing was comfortable for my bad back, handled well, & had been fault free for two years. She was all proud when the trip monitor showed a average of 77 mpg for her driving time. She was mifed when I registered slightly over 100mpg. I cross checked the computer with the fuel purchase receipts and map milage & found the match dead on.

 

[danielb1]

Do something to make and keep fuel prices sky-high in the United States starting as early as possible, preferably in the 1950s or earlier (I am not sure if there's a plausible method to do so without far-reaching global effects e.g. World War 3), or alternatively have the US government or state governments tax cars by engine displacement similar to some European countries. Make it uneconomical for even upper-mid-tier brands like Buick to sell large block V-8 engines and have Chevrolet sell Crosley-esque mini cars, so that the only market for very large cars with thirsty big-block V-8s is for luxury cars competing with the likes of Mercedes-Benz or even Rolls-Royce....in short, reshape the American automobile market to be at least a little bit more like the European market, as early as possible.

In those circumstances, Cadillac, if it survives, will likely evolve into something more like Mercedes-Benz, or a less reliable but more stylish Lexus.
Note that it will also completely remake other American cars - among other things, muscle cars will be DOA and pony cars either won't exist or will be substantially smaller than OTL (TTL's Mustang, if it exists, might be more like a Capri or a Celica).

 

[1940LaSalle]

One or more prototype V12 engines were developed but never saw the light of day. Put a supercharged V12 into production, demonstrate it burning mules in the middle of MT/WY and you'll have something that turns heads. Remember, Cadillac had enormously successful V12 and V16 models in the '30s; the economy killed them.

 

[marathag]

or alternatively have the US government or state governments tax cars by engine displacement similar to some European countries

That a good way to lose the next election

 

[Theoretical_TJ]

They do have that. That's called the V Series and they are just as good or even better than their German counterparts.

That would have been quite a game changer in the mid-late 1990s.

The late 1990s Caddy I’d build to compete with the lux brands would be:

C class/3-Series - Rebadged Opel model with the 3.5L Shortstar V6 and a supercharged V line (or equivalent)
215 HP and say 250 supercharged

Coupe (el dorado) with passenger space of the 3-series competitor but engine capabilities of the 5-series - Lexus SC target

E-Class/5-Series OTL Olds Aurora with the 4.0 L Baby Northstar as the
250 hp/315 supercharged/400 turbo

S-Class - Deville built like an Aurora with the 4.6 L engine, 4.4 supercharged, and an x.xL V12 supernorthstar

295 hp/400 hp supercharged/450-500 natural

Maybach - take the Fleetwood way upscale with a V12 standard and you get a Bentley killer

475hp to 650 hp super/turbocharged

Allante done right as an SL -type
300 hp/400/475 with the same engine options as the Deville

The Northstar engine was that good. People who had nothing good to say or were bored by GM LOVED the Northstar. It was truly elite for its time and right up there with the Germans and Japanese.

 

[Admiral Bloonbeard]

That would have been quite a game changer in the mid-late 1990s.

The late 1990s Caddy I’d build to compete with the lux brands would be:

C class/3-Series - Rebadged Opel model with the 3.5L Shortstar V6 and a supercharged V line (or equivalent)
215 HP and say 250 supercharged

Coupe (el dorado) with passenger space of the 3-series competitor but engine capabilities of the 5-series - Lexus SC target

E-Class/5-Series OTL Olds Aurora with the 4.0 L Baby Northstar as the
250 hp/315 supercharged/400 turbo

S-Class - Deville built like an Aurora with the 4.6 L engine, 4.4 supercharged, and an x.xL V12 supernorthstar

295 hp/400 hp supercharged/450-500 natural

Maybach - take the Fleetwood way upscale with a V12 standard and you get a Bentley killer

475hp to 650 hp super/turbocharged

Allante done right as an SL -type
300 hp/400/475 with the same engine options as the Deville

The Northstar engine was that good. People who had nothing good to say or were bored by GM LOVED the Northstar. It was truly elite for its time and right up there with the Germans and Japanese.

They did a drag race and found out the the Cadillac CTS-V was faster in 0-60 than the BMW M5

They are truly amazing cars.

 

[Reggieperrin]

If you want to target AUDI, BMW and Merc', don't just badge engineer a Chevy . . . do it properly and put some serious effort into it. By all means share a platform, running gear etc but at least make the body shell look 'expensive'

But that was the Detroit Way! Take the generic sedan, add “luxury” trim to the tune of 10% more unit cost, sell it for double the price and 10x the margin. Every new model year degrades the brand perception a bit and lowers the price people will pay, but no problem. Just cut the cost and quality of the base car + “luxury“ bits enough to keep that profit margin where you want it.

Both Cadillac and Lincoln were once world class premium marques, no reason they couldn’t have stayed that way if there was some focus on actual product quality and actual service. But instead decades of milking the brand ended up with Chevylacs and the Ford Crown Victoria Town Car going head to head with BMW, Mercedes, Audi, Lexus, Infiniti, etc etc etc. And even if the premium Detroit product now is great, and competitive, so is everyone else’s cars. So it’s hard to climb back on top when all of them are striving to deliver the most attractive premium offer.

 

[Richard V]

MB does well because it is MB. Same thing goes for BMW. People buy the name to either convince themselves that they have reached some level of success or to keep up with the neighbors.

There may have been a time when the German makes were vastly more reliable than U.S. companies, but that bird has flown. U.S. manufacturers have closed the gap, but both the Europeans and Americans are nowhere near the Japanese, especially Honda and Toyota. I bought a Tundra in 2008, it was manufactured in Texas, and had more N.A. sourced parts than any of the "American" 1/2 tons, couple of my friends bought Fords around the same time. Fords are long gone, Tundra is sitting in the driveway.

Biggest problem with buying a Honda or a Toyota is that you wind up with the same damned car for a quarter of your life.

Cadillac was ruined by people putting cattle horns on hoods. No brand can survive that.

 

[Simon]

Fords are long gone, Tundra is sitting in the driveway.

Yeah, I have a friend out in Illinois who works as a civil engineer that swore by Tundras.

 

[CalBear]

Yeah, I have a friend out in Illinois who works as a civil engineer that swore by Tundras.

Pretty much all Toyota products fall into the "I better be sure I love this thing, I'm going to be stuck with it for 20 or 30 years".

They are like luggage and brick outdoor BBQ set-ups. last more or less forever.

 

[phx1138]

To do this, IMO, you pretty much have to shoot all of GM's senior management.

How far back you'd have to go to achieve it, IDK... I think the last Cad I liked (& the first I might actually have driven, bought new; everything before that was such a barge ) was the Allante. It really needed for GM senior management to realize the target market wasn't the T-bird, or even Chrysler, it was the 5-series and Porsche. Start with the 32v. If that cramps Corvette, make the 'vettes better, too. How hard could that be?

Better quality control in the '70s & '80s was essential, & that also requires a major shift in attitude at the top (at all levels, actually).

It's a bit contrarian, maybe, but there have been suggestions on this board for captive imports from Opel being badged as Buicks; I wonder if there couldn't be a "joint venture" to design a "Euro-spec" Cad. (Maybe even make it TTL's Cimarron?) The idea being, give the Detroit designers some feel for what European customers really want, and force them to conform to it by making it a model that will sell in Europe as an Opel, too. Go from that to Allante? Or alt-Allante? (I'd love to see Cad get a retro-styled '58 'vette, in the fashion of the '02 T-bird, with Cad badges & the 32v. )

 

[marathag]

Cadillac was ruined by people putting cattle horns on hoods. No brand can survive that.

Yeah, doomed brands

 

[Richard V]

Yeah, doomed brands

Jeep and Toyota aren’t luxury brands. The bottom Merc is a very old car. People weren’t doing that with their new Mercedes but brand new Caddys with bullhorns were a real thing. It was on tv and in the movies.