AHC: Norse God-King

I remember a timeline similar to this, where a prophet establishes an organized version of Norse Paganism that manages to compete with Christianity.

This?
 
more in a down to earth sense, and not in a hippie sense
It was kind of both. The Norse believed in the concept of Innagard and Utgard, i.e. "within the fence" and "outside the fence". Innagard referred to their farmsteads and settlements, 'tamed wilderness', whereas Utgard referred to the woods, mountains, rivers, etc., 'untamed wilderness'. They revered the utgard as being the home of the landvaettir (landwights, nature spirits) that could be malicious or benevolent depending on how they and their territory was treated, so the Norse were careful not to encroach too much and to be respectful of nature.

There's also the concept of "from the gods, to the earth, to us, from us, to the earth, to the gods" (a modern phrase based on historical practice). The gods created the world and everything on it, therefore everything we use out of nature is their gift. Moderation and preservation is, then, important. Returning gifts to the gods via offerings was the reverse of this process; here's some grain I took from the earth, that I am giving back to the earth, to then be accepted by the gods via the earth; it's believed that most ritualistic offerings occurred outdoors in nature, and offerings would have been consumed by wild animals (mostly birds).

To the point of the thread, "god-king" isn't a concept that would meld well with the Norse religion. The concept of tracing a lineage back to a god was likely based on the belief that all mankind is descended, conceptually, from the gods, through the act of creation (when Odin and his brothers crafted Ask and Embla from the driftwood (oak/ash and elm)). Humility was also something outlined in the Havamal, a poem that described Odin's views on life, and claiming godhood through kingship isn't very humble. Of course, sources are scarce and disjointed and open to interpretation.

I don't think you'd be able to get a pharoah-esque situation in Norway, but a strong leader with countless successes could be seen as being favoured by the gods, like the mythical heroes of old.
 
So no imperial cult than? Would a king going full Caligula be able to do it though fear or would the priests be able to easily remove him?
Germanic paganism didn't have a dedicated priesthood. There were various roles played by various people. The term that usually get thrown around is Godi, but that wasn't a priest as such, it was just someone who was seen as being particularly close to the gods. Anyone could theoretically be a godi and it was far more common for kings, jarls, and other chieftains to preside over religious ceremony than it was for there to be a dedicated priest/priestess.

So no, the Norse weren't likely to overthrow someone claiming to be a 'god-king', but they would stop following this person as soon as their luck runs out and favour with the gods was lost. Norse society was fickle like that; it's exactly why lineages didn't tend to last. It wasn't until Christianity that the descendants of a king were more guaranteed to rule after their father passed (luck as a concept was considered genealogical in a sense; if the father failed, so too would the sons, until the favour changes).

I suspect a lot of folks would probably believe this person is profoundly arrogant, though.
 
Hm. The kings and heroes of Norse mythology always seem somehow more separate from the gods, more human than the gods of the Mediterranean though they seem. That might be the Christianization talking, tho'.

I wonder if spreading Buddhism into the Norse lands would help make it more believable. I mean, the godkings and divine lineages of the Thai and Japanese seem less out of place in that religious atmosphere. IDK.

Certainly, such a cult would be more aristocratic than popular, all things considered. The division would be between the earthy popular gods and saints, and the strict canon of a deified king and his aristocrats.
I don't think Buddhism would help in regarding establishment of God-King tradition, they simply don't oppose to it.

Like Thai and Khmer God-King came from Hindusim, the adopting of Buddhism actually help counter-balance the power of God-King by adding the believe that the king must be Thammaracha (basically virtuous king according to buddhism) into the mix.

Though we also got concept of Chakkraphat (Universal Emperor with some sort of Bodhisattva undertone) from Buddhism but it is another thing from God-King.

Also I believe the Japanese God-King idea derived from Shintoism instead of Buddhism too.
 
Attila the Hun appears to have become an almost supernatural figure among Germanic peoples and in his own life claimed he possessed the "sword of Mars" that gave him the right and power to rule the world. A successful dynasty descended from him ruling the Germanic peoples would be the closest thing to it in the Germanic world.
 
I find it unlikely, mostly because of how Norse religion likely was organized. While we tend to see the Norse kings as warlords in reality they were more like high priest of the national cult. They lead the chieftains in national ritual like sacrifices, at the same time Odin was the God of the Ritual [1], which meant the potential position which the Norse kings could have in the Patheon is already taken by Odin, so they must claim divinity through descend instead as we see with the Danish and English kings, and through leading the people in rituals.

In addition, this “organized” version of Norse paganism was probably only a fairly limited branch of the religion, practiced by the king, magnates and their hirdsmen. To the general population the faith was likely completely different and placing other deities and spirits at the top, meaning descent from Odin probably matters fairly little to them. It’s unlike for example ancient Egypt where the ruler was seen as responsible for many things that were very important for the general population, like the sun rising in the morning.
 
I wonder if spreading Buddhism into the Norse lands would help make it more believable. I mean, the godkings and divine lineages of the Thai and Japanese seem less out of place in that religious atmosphere. IDK.

Buddhism, much like Christianity, was often in part adopted to offload the religious duty of the King so that they could focus more in worldly matters, so I doubt it
 
I don't think Buddhism would help in regarding establishment of God-King tradition, they simply don't oppose to it.

Like Thai and Khmer God-King came from Hindusim, the adopting of Buddhism actually help counter-balance the power of God-King by adding the believe that the king must be Thammaracha (basically virtuous king according to buddhism) into the mix.

Though we also got concept of Chakkraphat (Universal Emperor with some sort of Bodhisattva undertone) from Buddhism but it is another thing from God-King.

Also I believe the Japanese God-King idea derived from Shintoism instead of Buddhism too.
That's true. The god-king tradition just doesn't seem like a thing in the post-Bronze Age West, Egypt being the one major exception.
 

Calculon

Banned
Doubtful - though it depends on when this Norse ruler unites his people. Folk have some odd ideas about Medieval Catholicism and Crusaders in general: Crusades were not just knee-jerk reaction which the Pope threw out whenever a bad mood hit him, nor was it some medival form of Christendom Manifest Destiny. It was a theological justification of a just war which arose out only under very specific conditions. There was no concept of Crusade prior to the first one being preached, and though there was occasional attempts at 'holy war' these were usually secondary justifications at best (and even here, the idea only really gained any credance in the West following Charlemange's crushing of the Saxon rebellion - and only very sparingly after that. You will notice, that the Viking Age - at no point - was met with a great Northern Crusade. There are reasons for this. Should the Norse unite, they're likely going to be pretty much untouchable until a later date due to logistics and other technical reasons. And by the time they ca be challanged? There may be war. But it's highly unlikely is going to be some grand holy war.
Exactly. To add to this, crusades would target the middle east also because that's where the riches are. The north is just a bunch of forests and bogs. Northern crusades were more about Germanic expansion than religion.
 
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