What point in time before 1700 would be the best setup for an independent and united Irish realm to come into being?
Best chance for United Ireland pre-1700
- Thread starter Kayin Dreemurr
- Start date
I think a Norse dynasty could do it. If the Vikings spread just a little but further and actually conquered Ireland like they did much of England, then maybe they can establish a Norse-Irish kingdom. Although it might fall apart once the Vikings leave, the precident will be there, and it's possible the Irish will unite again by their own accord the minute the English start nosing around.
Some English king divides his territories upon his death, leaving England to his eldest son and Ireland to his youngest.
TinyTartar
Banned
I would say some form of English domination that becomes separated from the King of England in some dynastic spat, and the separation becomes long lasting.
The FitzGeralds had the power to do so at some point during the War of the Roses, but not the legal legitimacy nor the will.
The best idea I can come up with is some English pretender firmly establishing himself in Ireland with French, Spanish, Papal, etc. support and an England too internally divided to do anything about it or an England defeated on the battlefield and forced to accept the situation. Possibly, James II being King of Ireland with a claim on the English throne but no way to attain it is an interesting idea. He defeats William at the Boyne and drives the Williamites from Ireland but cannot invade England.
The FitzGeralds had the power to do so at some point during the War of the Roses, but not the legal legitimacy nor the will.
The best idea I can come up with is some English pretender firmly establishing himself in Ireland with French, Spanish, Papal, etc. support and an England too internally divided to do anything about it or an England defeated on the battlefield and forced to accept the situation. Possibly, James II being King of Ireland with a claim on the English throne but no way to attain it is an interesting idea. He defeats William at the Boyne and drives the Williamites from Ireland but cannot invade England.
The best bet for an English division of lands resulting in a united Ireland is probably Henry II's plan, or possible plan.
That would have seen:
Henry the Young, King of England, Normandy and Anjou (and Maine?).
Richard, Duke of Aquitaine and Count of Poitou
Geoffrey, Duke of Brittany
and
John, Lord of Ireland.
How things develop from there will be interesting to say the least. John had serious problems with Irish chieftains when he was his father's governor, but at least such issues might stop him participating in the fraternal royal rumble the other three would no doubt start as soon as they succeeded.
That would have seen:
Henry the Young, King of England, Normandy and Anjou (and Maine?).
Richard, Duke of Aquitaine and Count of Poitou
Geoffrey, Duke of Brittany
and
John, Lord of Ireland.
How things develop from there will be interesting to say the least. John had serious problems with Irish chieftains when he was his father's governor, but at least such issues might stop him participating in the fraternal royal rumble the other three would no doubt start as soon as they succeeded.
I think the best bet is Brian Boru surviving long enough to establish some more stable succession to the High Kingship which sets a precedence for a united Ireland, and IMO that is a more plausible solution than the apparently popular English overlord idea because I can't imagine an English dynast ruling over Ireland being something other than a vassal or subordinate title to their relatives (or to themselves as was the case IOTL) in the home country which could likely still be their homes. Also I just don't like the idea of jumping the gun so quickly on claiming native Irish rule is impossible. Beyond the ever popular Brian Boru idea I still think there'd have been a chance with either a victory in the Nine Years' War by Hugh O'Neill, who seems to have been the most effective leader from Ireland in a great many centuries and who the English considered an eminently canny foe who came close to victory and had some Spanish backing. There's also the Irish Confederation a few decades later whose victory I don't believe would have been impossible.
