This does seem like a necessary step. That said, as will be covered in the next update, Saudi Arabia at this time is definitely not inclined toward supporting peace/recognition of Israel. As RFK draws the US closer to the Democratic Republic of Iran and maintains high expectations in terms of human rights, expect America's relationship with the Saudis to become more strained, at least in the short term.
Blue Skies in Camelot (Continued): An Alternate 80s and Beyond
- Thread starter President_Lincoln
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On a similar note, maybe down the line you could butterfly the death of Harold Ray Presley, a Buford Pusser type sheriff who was murdered in 2001. For those wondering, yes, he is related to Elvis and I kinda hope the two end up meeting ITTL.This seems like it could be easily butterflied.
Well if they wanna play hardball they can kiss our ass. I hear Tehran is lovely this time of year
Whatever it takes.
Bribery ? Such ugly word. I think you mean generous financial aid on infrastructure development
Still I'd like to think there are better ways to deal with Saudi Arabia a country with appaling human rights record, at this point ITTL doesn't allow women to drive cars etc. than giving them money. Besides aren't they rich in oil?Bribery ? Such ugly word. I think you mean generous financial aid on infrastructure development
Let's look at it geographically.Bribery ? Such ugly word. I think you mean generous financial aid on infrastructure development
You have Israel and Palestine.
To finally achieve the two-state solution we're talking about here, all of Palestine's Arab allies must recognize Israel.
Bush got Egypt in 1974, this leaves out
01. Lebanon - In a devastating multi-sided civil war. We don't know who the de facto ruler of the country is.
02. United Arab Republic - Ruled by Saddam Hussein, who hates Israel. I don't think any form of negotiation is possible with him.
03. Saudi Arabia - Firmly against Israel, and with US influence at an all-time low, I can't see any form of bribery working. Add to that Mecca and Medina. Controlling the holy cities has always given any Islamic nation extra clout, and other Muslim nations are going to listen.
04. Yemeni Arab Republic (North Yemen) - Established in its current form in the 1950s, it is a Nasser-style Arab nationalist government. Generous foreign aid against South Yemen may work here.
05. People's Democratic Republic of Yemen (South Yemen) - The only communist country in the Middle East, they are firmly under Soviet influence, with very poor relations with the rest of the Middle East. North Yemen may be nudged into recognizing Israel by funding its army against this nation.
06. Oman - Western-sympathetic monarchy. May be easily swayed.
07. United Arab Emirates - Western-sympathetic monarchy. May be easily swayed.
08. Qatar - Western-sympathetic monarchy. May be easily swayed.
09. Bahrain - Western-sympathetic monarchy. May be easily swayed.
10. Kuwait - Western-sympathetic monarchy. May be easily swayed.
11. Libya - Read the UAR, the good Colonel will be very unwilling to negotiate.
12. Jordan - Western-sympathetic monarchy. Will be easily swayed. The PLO taking refuge in Jordan almost got the country into civil war.
As of right now, even ITTL, is an Arab issue rather than an Islamic one.
RFK and Edmund Muskie have a hell of a job cut out for them.
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Oh, the Sauds have lots of oil money, alright. It's just that wealth is used to bribe the masses to overlook the country's atrocious human rights record and accept the ultra-conservative interpretation of Islam. This was done by enacting policies that raised the living standards of average Arabians. The rest of the money is spent on either ridiculous luxury spending by members of the Royal Family or massive white-elephant infrastructure projects.
So 6 out of 12 Arab countries tonight be able to be persuaded to recognize Isreal. Oh yeah what great odds. Your right Muskie and Bobby have their work cut out for them.
It's gonna take a miracle to bring peace to the middle East and get all those countries to recognize Isreal.
Indeed. Overcoming generations of ethnic and religious tensions is not impossible; it is just very, very difficult.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but, I get the impression that the Arab monarchies don't seem to have a lot of influence in the region. Either that, or if they do, their influence isn't very large.
Indeed besides Saudi Arabia it doesn't seem like any Arab monarchies have much influence. If any
It's like despite what anybody says not how many goodwill meetings they have, nothing ever comes of it. Like a broken record, even with exceptions like Walkers point accords ITTL and Camp David accords IOTL.
This is where control of Mecca and Medina comes into play as I mentioned earlier. Because Saudi Arabia controls Mecca and Medina, its rulers also have the honour of being the Khalifa, the Defender of the Faith.
So, as a result, these smaller monarchies, Western-influenced they may be, will listen to the Khalifa over some jumped-up non-Muslim country.
Since the Saudis don't have a positive view of the United States right now, it will be pretty difficult.
@PRM , this is what I meant in my earlier post about lack of influence.