Earlier discovery of concept of germs

[Norman]

I was rereading the part of the Islands in the Streams of Time series about the doctor who begins to introduce modern medicine in ancient Babylon. This leads me to wonder:

What would the effect have been of an earlier development of better ideas of hygiene and disease transmission by Galen in Greece(?)?

For example, if Greeks live longer, do they expand out into adjacent lands? If people live longer, do languages change as fast? How aboput other sciences, do they advance faster or slower?

I'd be interested in your thoughts.

 

[NapoleonXIV]

As I understand it, people would not "live longer" per se. It is a misconception that, since the average age back then was some incredibly low figure, (say 35 just for argument,) that a person at 50 was a true graybeard and noone had ever heard of a 70 year old man.

The average age however, is an average, the main thing it means is that many more children died before 5 and that really old people by our standards, say late 80's to 90, were indeed much rarer than they are now, although still not unheard of. Between 5 and 70 in any era, what kills you mainly is accident, crime or war. True enough, they could be carried off by things we regard as easily curable, had intermittent plagues and the accidents, crimes, and wars were much more commonplace, but these took their toll of a population that bell curved highest at 35, (given environmental variations) just like us. The overall number was much less, however.

The effect of better hygiene would be to increase this overall number, that is, the population. You would reduce the number of infant deaths and plagues precipitately as has happened in the modern era. The most immediate effect of any population increase by one group is usually war and the expansion of this group into other areas. As they would carry their hygiene with them, and assuming they knew it to be the cause of their increased longevity, the upshot would be a population explosion, much as has happened in the present day.

The problem comes when we ask what will happen as a result. There seems, unfortunately, no good reason why farm science will necessarily expand and even if it does Malthus still wins if the population keeps growing. Ancient man was probably capable of grasping the idea that people naturally increase faster than food but even then, could he do anything about it?

 

[NHBL]

How do we get an earlier germ theory--a proposal

For something like this, we need a way to get a germ theory. Without a microscope, getting one scientificly seems unlikely, so lets try a different route--mysticism and superstition.
Fire has often been seen as a way to purify things mysticly. Lets take this further.
Wounds become very nasty when things go wrong. Now, lets have a cult of some sort that considers this a result of impurity of some sort--demons tainting the wounds or some such. This cult, nation, or whatever, ritually purifies anything that will touch the wounds--in fire if it's something that will survive the touch of the flame.
In addition, since wounds are a vehicle for coruption of the body, anything that touches wounds has to be purified in flame--hence, used bandages are incinerated. Also, as a bandage gets nasty and corrupted, it gets taken away and burned, so as to get the corruption away from the body.
For that which can not be purified by fire, use water--water that has been purified by fire in the form of boiling.
This cult's members seem to survive wounds better than most, and so its devotees will be seen as natural healers where many wounds are expected.
That could get mysticism on the right track to develop a doctrine of cleanliness...without science behind it.
Any ideas?

 

[Brilliantlight]

For something like this, we need a way to get a germ theory. Without a microscope, getting one scientificly seems unlikely, so lets try a different route--mysticism and superstition.
Fire has often been seen as a way to purify things mysticly. Lets take this further.
Wounds become very nasty when things go wrong. Now, lets have a cult of some sort that considers this a result of impurity of some sort--demons tainting the wounds or some such. This cult, nation, or whatever, ritually purifies anything that will touch the wounds--in fire if it's something that will survive the touch of the flame.
In addition, since wounds are a vehicle for coruption of the body, anything that touches wounds has to be purified in flame--hence, used bandages are incinerated. Also, as a bandage gets nasty and corrupted, it gets taken away and burned, so as to get the corruption away from the body.
For that which can not be purified by fire, use water--water that has been purified by fire in the form of boiling.
This cult's members seem to survive wounds better than most, and so its devotees will be seen as natural healers where many wounds are expected.
That could get mysticism on the right track to develop a doctrine of cleanliness...without science behind it.
Any ideas?

Good idea but you have to have a long way from either Christian Europe or Islamic Central Asia as both probably would try to eliminate the "infidel".

 

[Hierophant]

Actually the Zorastrians were kinda centered in fire worship and their religion influenced Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. When Islam overuns Persia i could see that this fire/heat belief could easily be absorbed by Islam.

 

[NHBL]

May BE no Christianity or Islam...

I was thinking of the Greek or early Romans--or perhaps even earlier. Something like this would be major enough that Christianity and Islan could easily never occur. Either that, or, if it did come into effect at the time of the reformation, it might survive--and then the side of the scism that adhered to these beliefs would likely come out on top, since their troops will survive wounds better, they might survive plagues better as well.

 

[mishery]

How likely is the accidental discovery of the lens?

 

[Norman]

Good idea but you have to have a long way from either Christian Europe or Islamic Central Asia as both probably would try to eliminate the "infidel".

Couple of thoughts.
First, it could be based on 'folk magic' rather than religion, then (since people that abide by the rules live longer and have more children) the belief incorporates into the religion of what ever people we're talking about.

Second, it could be an initial premise of some sort of religious requirements, such as the dietary rules in the bible.

 

[Hierophant]

How about purifing water by boiling it? That would eliminate alot of Germs right there. Also sterilizing medical utensils for amputations, etc., would help alot as well.

 

[MerryPrankster]

This fire cult could be pre-Christian or pre-Islamic and have its tenets assimilated into the Christianity- or Islam-dominated cultures.