Gods of Destin situation Happens: Britain manages to be invaded and occupied by France. What happens next?

[Kurd Gossemer]

The idea is very simple and based on the TL Gods of Destin: Napoleon doesn't send his infamous expedition towards Haiti and thus manages to safeguard one of his few good admirals as well as troops, thanks to a bit of luck and organization, a combined Franco Spanish fleet manages to clog the British navy enough that a army arrives in British soil itself and later on, the generals in charge of the occupation and administration of the new part of the Napoleonic empire, the British army meanwhile completely gets wrecked by the French veterans and the Remnants of the government and army still in the unoccupied England are more interested in fighting each other due to petty rivalries than actually fending off the French invaders who take their time to slowly bring the country to heel.

The question is, what now? With Britain basically decapitated (given that both Pitt and George III are dead) there's no one to fund the coalitions, the Royal Navy is basically on the loose trying to keep itself afloat and Napoleon has crushed all his enemies in Russia, Austria and Prussia, without a england around, does this basically ensures a french hegemony in the world? What happens to the British colonies? Does the war of 1812 still happens?

 

[Mildtryth]

The idea is very simple and based on the TL Gods of Destin: Napoleon doesn't send his infamous expedition towards Haiti and thus manages to safeguard one of his few good admirals as well as troops, thanks to a bit of luck and organization, a combined Franco Spanish fleet manages to clog the British navy enough that a army arrives in British soil itself and later on, the generals in charge of the occupation and administration of the new part of the Napoleonic empire, the British army meanwhile completely gets wrecked by the French veterans and the Remnants of the government and army still in the unoccupied England are more interested in fighting each other due to petty rivalries than actually fending off the French invaders who take their time to slowly bring the country to heel.

The question is, what now? With Britain basically decapitated (given that both Pitt and George III are dead) there's no one to fund the coalitions, the Royal Navy is basically on the loose trying to keep itself afloat and Napoleon has crushed all his enemies in Russia, Austria and Prussia, without a england around, does this basically ensures a french hegemony in the world? What happens to the British colonies? Does the war of 1812 still happens?

I suppose that George and Pitt dying was part of the TL, right?

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

I suppose that George and Pitt dying was part of the TL, right?

Yes, Pitt due to disease and George while on the run of the French army ends up cornered in a city and killed on the confusion by exhausted French cavalry

 

[pathfinder]

Free Ireland?

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

Free Ireland?

Yes that is a idea, independent ireland, Wales and Scotland while England itself becomes a part of the french empire with direct rule from Paris, perfect for having countries close to their "rebellious province" that they can have troops stationed in case they need to intervine, plus it would make up for having some troops too like having the "Irish Legion" and "Highlander Regime" fighting side by side the Grand Armé in Europe and the world.

 

[funnyhat]

Yes that is a idea, independent ireland, Wales and Scotland while England itself becomes a part of the french empire with direct rule from Paris, perfect for having countries close to their "rebellious province" that they can have troops stationed in case they need to intervine, plus it would make up for having some troops too like having the "Irish Legion" and "Highlander Regime" fighting side by side the Grand Armé in Europe and the world.

It’s unlikely that England would be annexed. That did not happen to Austria, Prussia or Spain IOTL. (Holland was annexed, but only after it had been a French client state for years.)

Possibly Napoléon would seek to place a Bonaparte on the throne. But more likely, the UK would be forced to accept a harsh peace that would mean recognition of all French claims, the restitution of British conquests (Malta, Cape Colony, etc), possibly the establishment of French client states in Ireland and Scotland, and likely the loss of its continental possessions (Gibraltar, Channel Islands, Hanover).

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

It’s unlikely that England would be annexed. That did not happen to Austria, Prussia or Spain IOTL. (Holland was annexed, but only after it had been a French client state for years.)

Possibly Napoléon would seek to place a Bonaparte on the throne. But more likely, the UK would be forced to accept a harsh peace that would mean recognition of all French claims, possibly the establishment of French client states in Ireland and Scotland, and likely the loss of its continental possessions (Gibraltar, Channel Islands, Hanover).

That makes sense, something like a very hefty reparation as well as limitations on the size of their armies and navies alongside the right for France to station troops there and use their harbors for the French navy.

Makes me wonder about the colonies of Britain, are those lost too or do they pull a Bragança and manage to keep going on their own despite the occupation of the motherland?

 

[Aluma]

or do they pull a Bragança and manage to keep going on their own despite the occupation of the motherland?

To pull a Braganza you need both the monarch and the court to move to the colony

In that timeline King George did atempt it, but he died before it could be pulled off

Most of his court was probably captured in their way out as well, with the few who did escape safe & sound either returning after the "peace" was made or staying in Canada as irrelevant hardliners trying to rebuild their lives there

As for the navy, what wasnt destroyed is likely to try some skirmishes with the french one and move to Canada in absence of a government to pay them if they have enough fuel left to make the trip

So Canada might go independent there if it can fend off the US, since I doubt the metropolis will ever be able to reestabilish control, possibly even get wanked a bit if enough of the Royal Navy make its way there

But it will not become a Exile Britain like in Kaiserreich

 

[Mildtryth]

That makes sense, something like a very hefty reparation as well as limitations on the size of their armies and navies alongside the right for France to station troops there and use their harbors for the French navy.

Makes me wonder about the colonies of Britain, are those lost too or do they pull a Bragança and manage to keep going on their own despite the occupation of the motherland?

I suppose there's a possibility that the United States attempts to take advantage of the situation to make gains on Canada - i don't really think they can take it all, though.

Their possessions in India are probably going to be vulnerable too.

And, what @Aluma said - the more likely option is Canada and possibly the Caribbean colonies going the way of the Spanish colonies instead, especially if France imposes a Bonaparte on the English throne.

 

[funnyhat]

This would be happening just after the defeat in Haïti and the sale of Louisiana, so Napoléon may not be too eager to focus on colonies. He would probably want to offset the loss of Haïti with other sugar colonies, though, since it represented a major loss of revenue. He may also want to expand French holdings in India.

Spain (still allied at the time) may be compensated with some territory. Jamaica?

Canada would be an especially interesting situation as it is not united, but divided into separate francophone and anglophone colonies. Lower Canada may well send a delegation to France.

 

[Kellan Sullivan]

Possibly Napoléon would seek to place a Bonaparte on the throne.

The plan considered was for Eugène de Beauharnais to marry Maria Beatrice of Sardinia (the Jacobite heiress),then tie up in England.

And by plan I mean nothing more than a vague suggestion in a throwaway line in a letter from Napoléon to the Cardinal-Duke of York.

The last Stuart simply responded by correcting Napoléon that kings addressed one another as "brother" not "cousin". And nothing more was said on the matter.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

This would be happening just after the defeat in Haïti and the sale of Louisiana, so Napoléon may not be too eager to focus on colonies. He would probably want to offset the loss of Haïti with other sugar colonies, though, since it represented a major loss of revenue. He may also want to expand French holdings in India.

Spain (still allied at the time) may be compensated with some territory. Jamaica?

Canada would be an especially interesting situation as it is not united, but divided into separate francophone and anglophone colonies. Lower Canada may well send a delegation to France.

Nah, one of the PODs is that he doesn't send the expeditions towards Haiti so it's still technically French, same as Louisiana although he might decide to sell it already since it wasn't very populated and he had more important affairs in Europe to deal with, even with Britain fully conquered.

Ah yes, Spain does get compensated with Jamaica and some other British Caribbean colonies given their contributions towards offering ships for the invasion of Britain.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

I suppose there's a possibility that the United States attempts to take advantage of the situation to make gains on Canada - i don't really think they can take it all, though.

Their possessions in India are probably going to be vulnerable too.

And, what @Aluma said - the more likely option is Canada and possibly the Caribbean colonies going the way of the Spanish colonies instead, especially if France imposes a Bonaparte on the English throne.

They probably take the coastal maritime provinces that weren't populated that much and gives more of that sweet coastline, as well as taking some slices of Western Canada in order to box them in or at least, push the American frontier upper north. Although the possible war might just end up in a stalemate with a slight American edge given that the US army wasn't very good at the time and Canada will be receiving British refugees and sailors to help them out, so it could go either way.

India probably won't be that hard to subdue for the French, just tell the princes to continue the business as usual while answering to new overlords, same thing with British African colonies.

The true question is what happens to Australia given it was already being colonized with settlers and the French might end up with a reverse Quebec Situation where a Anglo minority needs to be handled with care least they revolt.

Of course that's assuming the Royal Navy wouldn't try and disrupt all these incursions into the colonies.

Another thing to consider is the Dutch/Batavian Republic colonies like South Africa and the East Indies, OTL they were taken over by Britain but with them occupied, both colonies are probably still gonna remain in Dutch hands, assuming of course that the Batavian Republic continues to be a thing instead of simply being annexed directly into the French Empire, in which case their colonies simply become French

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

To pull a Braganza you need both the monarch and the court to move to the colony

In that timeline King George did atempt it, but he died before it could be pulled off

Most of his court was probably captured in their way out as well, with the few who did escape safe & sound either returning after the "peace" was made or staying in Canada as irrelevant hardliners trying to rebuild their lives there

As for the navy, what wasnt destroyed is likely to try some skirmishes with the french one and move to Canada in absence of a government to pay them if they have enough fuel left to make the trip

So Canada might go independent there if it can fend off the US, since I doubt the metropolis will ever be able to reestabilish control, possibly even get wanked a bit if enough of the Royal Navy make its way there

But it will not become a Exile Britain like in Kaiserreich

Makes sense, so I can see Canada becoming sorta of a rival to the US since the place will be brimming with British refugees "fleeing Norman Despotism" into it. Assuming Napoleon decides to not sell Louisiana to the USA, it really could be a thing

 

[Aluma]

Makes sense, so I can see Canada becoming sorta of a rival to the US since the place will be brimming with British refugees "fleeing Norman Despotism" into it. Assuming Napoleon decides to not sell Louisiana to the USA, it really could be a thing

Might sell it to somebody else as a joke

 

[Mildtryth]

Might sell it to somebody else as a joke

But who? I don't see anybody else in Europe being in any condition to buy it.

 

[Wendell]

Invites are once again issued for Britain's continental North American possessions to join the United States.

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

Might sell it to somebody else as a joke

Sells it to Russia in order to occupy them in America and suddenly we have a Romanov West Coast and Midwest

 

[Kurd Gossemer]

Invites are once again issued for Britain's continental North American possessions to join the United States.

The problem with that is that Canada is made up of the two types of people neither them or the general American population want: descendants and even original loyalists to the crown who fled after the American Revolution and Catholic Quebecois who have every reason nothing will change with a new overlord and might even get worse given how anti Catholic the USA was, not to mention the former slaves who fled before, during and after the revolution and who are taking in those who manage to flee the South, who would of course be screeching in Congress about wanting "their property back" and "putting uppity negroes in their place"

 

[Wendell]

The problem with that is that Canada is made up of the two types of people neither them or the general American population want: descendants and even original loyalists to the crown who fled after the American Revolution and Catholic Quebecois who have every reason nothing will change with a new overlord and might even get worse given how anti Catholic the USA was, not to mention the former slaves who fled before, during and after the revolution and who are taking in those who manage to flee the South, who would of course be screeching in Congress about wanting "their property back" and "putting uppity negroes in their place"

On the other hand, a rush of free states crushes the slavers sooner. As for anti-Catholicism, it was a thing, but more regional and stronger much later. A Catholic signed the Declaration of Independence and the Constitution.