I love this timeline, and it is one of the few I am subscribed to.
Pedantic note: "wary" is the word you want. "Weary" means tired. It does not, and never will mean "cautious"
Into the Fire - the "Minor" nations of WW2 strike back
- Thread starter Wings
- Start date
Pedantic note: "wary" is the word you want. "Weary" means tired. It does not, and never will mean "cautious"
The historical consensus of Russian historiography believes that the Germans didn't plan to accept the surrender in any case. I can look for specific details (a few years ago, the liberal Dozhd TV channel published a scandalous poll where it offered the idea of surrendering the city in order to save civilian lives). And the logistics of the Wehrmacht near Leningrad had obvious problems, as the Germans began looting the population much earlier thsn elsewhere (a larger percentage died in the occupied vicinity than in the city itself).
P.S. I think it's time to call Crueldwarf in case people in this thread need some knowledge about Eastern Front.
Coulsdon Eagle
Monthly Donor
Pritt Buttar (To Besiege a City) references Hitler's "plans" to starve Leningrad or bomb / shell it to destruction. The city was to be razed to the ground - very Punic!
Since German defeat on the East is inevitable, is there a possiblity we'll see Romania performing better on the side of the Allies?
Faster - yes and no - Odessa falls earlier but the weakened LW means that the Germans cannot support this pace of operations.
Slightly is mildly putting it. The Germans are about to get a harsh reality check here soon.
North is going better than OTL with Rommel's more decisive and riskier moves, but it's also a double-edged sword.
In formation as the 250th Infanterie-Division. Should see action soon enough.
Both the Langemarck and the Walloon Division are a bit screwed. With the King in England and the government abroad, it means a lot of the political prisoners like Degrelle also got sent to England, then Canada. Which means much lesser forces for these troops. The Walloon Legion would in all likelihood have to be forced into the Charlemagne. Regardless both are nowhere near operational.
Doesn't exist. The LVF died with Vichy France. The SS-Charlemagne will thus exist a little earlier than planned.
Not sure how they'll make it to Germany if the Germans even considered the idea.
That's an option but would the Finns even be able of accepting the surrender of half a million or more Soviets? They'd be overwhelmed...
Thanks!
Thanks. Not too sure how the Germans would deal with a fallen Leningrad, but regardless it's not going to be an easy fight for them at all. Again, I'm not claiming to be all-knowing in these things so if people have input or suggestions it can absolutely influence the story.
Yes.
Two more questions: Will the Western Allies also deploy some of its forces to fight in the Soviet Union, similar to the OTL Normandie-Niemen and the Great War Belgian Expeditionary Corps in Russia? And also, both Greece and Bulgaria did send volunteers to Russia in the 19th century, could some brave souls also join the Soviet Ranks? And a few Spanish Republicans were also present (like the fighter pilot Juan Lario Sanchez). As a response for the Blue Division, the Soviet could form a similar unit?
And could another threat be made for sales/Lend-Lease for the Allies, with the help for French/Belgium money/experties (such as the faster development of the M3 Stuart, for example)
And could another threat be made for sales/Lend-Lease for the Allies, with the help for French/Belgium money/experties (such as the faster development of the M3 Stuart, for example)
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Maybe, but certainly not at this point in the war.
Why would they? Greece is too busy having their troops defend their own country, so no chance to go to the USSR and even less chance of empowering the Communist wing in a very royalist government. As for the Bulgarians, no chance either. If the Germans get wind of it it's a death sentence.
No chance either. Most Spanish Republicans are in occupied France or have joined the Mandel government or the French Foreign Legion.
Chapter 34: Operation Barbarossa Part II – Silver Fox (June – December 1941)
June - December 1941
Finnish Front
Eastern Front
Finnish Front
Eastern Front
Finnish participation in Barbarossa had been a key issue both in Finland and Germany, and Mannerheim and Ryti knew that they needed to toe a fine line. For if he wanted to retake the lost territories, he also wished to avoid direct conflict with the Allies that a war with the USSR would entail. In addition, parts of his government wished to not escalate the war against the Soviets by invading territories that weren’t Finnish, though Mannerheim knew better: the Germans had conditioned the massive sale of arms for key objectives for the Finns to be taken, which Mannerheim had agreed to. Something Mannerheim had not agreed to, however, was for Finland to commit troops in dense urban environments like Murmansk or Leningrad.
After the plans for Barbarossa were finalized in December 1940, the Finns were made aware of the German intentions as soon as January 1941, and in February the first contacts between Germans and Finns had taken place. However, if the Germans did let the Finns know that the Finnish Army would need to mobilize in mid-June, it did not reveal the exact date of the operation to Mannerheim. They did, however, require that Finland intervene as soon as 24 hours after Germany had invaded.
Mobilization was declared as planned on June 15th, and the Finnish Army started to slowly reinforce its positions along the border, leaving the Northern part of the front to the Germans. On June 21st, Finland occupied the demilitarized Aland Islands, and began laying mines in the Gulf of Leningrad.
On June 22nd, Operation Barbarossa started, though Finnish troops did not move, not wanting to be seen as the aggressors in this war. The German Mountain troops stationed in Kirkenes quickly occupied Petsamo, and the Soviets had to react. Having had put their forces further from the border in an effort to dissuade the Finno-German rapprochement, the Soviets now brought their forces back, which was confirmed by aerial reconnaissance. Not only that, but the Soviets struck at Finnish targets only three hours after the start of Operation Barbarossa.
This was enough for Mannerheim and Ryti, who declared a state of war between the Soviet Union and Finland at 10:00 on June 22nd, and the Finnish Parliament thus talked of a “Defensive War”. According to plans drawn up as early as February, Finnish troops penetrated into a largely undefended Soviet territory in both Karelia and Ladoga, and immediately encircled the naval base of Hanko.
Initial Finnish advances were made quickly. By June 29th, the Finnish Army had already reached the shores of Lake Ladoga, splitting the Soviet 7th Army down the middle. Likewise, to the east, Finnish forces had liberated Salla and pushed towards the Kirov railway. These actions prompted the Soviet high command to scramble and send any available units on the Finnish border to contain the advance, but this suddenly coincided with the Finno-German Northern army corps starting to move from Petsamo towards Murmansk.
Hampered by logistics, though, this advance bogged down. The Soviets locked the access to Murmansk and the German mountaineers could hardly go further than the Rybachy Peninsula. Over the course of the months of August and September, these mountain troops would eventually reach the Litsa river, but failed to obtain a bridgehead due to strained logistics and lack of manpower.
It was towards the south, where the Germans of the 6th SS Mountain Division pushed with the Finnish 6th and 9th Divisions, that things were much more interesting. Having liberated Salla, these forces dashed east through mostly undefended territory, more hampered by logistics than anything else. Lack of coordination in the Soviet forces meant that several units were sent in one at a time, and were easy pickings for the Germano-Finns, who pushed them towards the lakes, encircling and reducing them one pocket at a time, such as at Kayraly and Alakurti. Likewise, the anti-tank guns of the 6th SS Mountaineers were very useful in knocking out the machines of the 1st Tank Division which had been tasked with protecting the road axis to Kantalahti (Kandalakcha). And although the Germans took most of the credit, it was the Finns who made most of the progress, since the SS were unaccustomed to Arctic warfare.
Supported by the III Army Corps to the south, the Finnish troops reached the Kestenga-Nyamozero line by the beginning of August (though Nyamozero was only reached by advanced units), and advanced towards the Kirov railway. With their objective in sight, the Germans did their utmost to support the Finns with what they had. Although the SS hadn’t acclimatized yet, their equipment proved deadly and allowed the Finns to clear the armored vanguards of the 1st Tank Division, seriously threatening the Kirov railway. By the end of August, Finnish troops had advanced to Sosnovy and were approaching Lukhy.
This prompted the Soviets to ask the United States to intervene. While Britain had declared war on Finland almost as soon as Finnish troops crossed the border, the neutral United States still wished for Finland to stay out of the war. However, Mannerheim did not yield to American pressure. With outstanding successes, he asked to relay an offer to the Soviet Union: the pre-Winter War borders in exchange for Finland withdrawing from the war. Of course, Stalin rejected this outright, with copious insults towards the Finns…and the Americans for having dared to relay this folly! It is said that these insults were why the Americans did not threaten Finland too much more… [1]
With this in mind, the Finns launched an offensive towards the railway, now hoping to draw the Soviets to the negotiating table. This offensive was clearly aimed at taking Lukhy and cutting the Kirov railway. The Soviets had reinforced this axis, but the Finns had also abandoned their race towards Kandalakcha and rerouted Finnish and German units from the area to aid in the assault. The Germans were all the more eager as they realized the strategic implications of such an assault. It took a long two weeks, but on October 5th, 1941, Lukhy would fall and the Kirov railway found itself cut. The 6th SS Mountain Division spared no time in reinforcing their position around the city, and withdrew their forces towards Nyamozero in the northern area.
The fall of Lukhy came as a shock for the Soviet authorities, but it was hardly the only one by this point. In the south, the Finns had pressed on their offensive and liberated Viipuri by August 18th, though most Soviet forces trapped in the city had managed to evacuate by sea. The Finns then resumed their advance southwards, pushing the Soviets past the old Winter War borders and right to the edge of Leningrad, reaching the suburbs of Sertolovo and Toksovo. However, IV Corps was ordered to stop their offensive. Mannerheim was not willing to sacrifice Finnish troops to capture the city, though he would soon have a change of heart…
Instead, Finnish forces initially pushed into Karelia. From the end of August onwards, two entire Finnish corps broke through the Soviet defenses and took Tuloska, launching themselves at the assault of the shocked Soviets. In this country of lakes, most Soviet forces were overrun or destroyed as they often ran into lakes during their retreat, suffering from poor organisation and overall gaps in communication. This allowed the Finns to rush to the Svir and reach Lake Onega on September 3rd.
The Finnish VI Corps then advanced south of the Svir river, advancing as far as Pasha and Oshta before being stopped by logistical constraints. In fact, the Finnish high command had no intention on really advancing past the Svir river as it would mean spreading their forces too thin. Meanwhile, other Finnish forces pressed on and encircled Pryazha, cutting the road to Petrozavodsk. Determined resistance from the Soviet forces slowed the Finnish advance, forcing them to proceed methodically, only encircling the town on September 16th. The Finnish 1st Division would clean up the town, where a number of Soviet forces had been encircled, finally taking it on September 23rd.
From then, the Finnish offensive in Karelia stalled. Throughout October, Finnish forces sought to secure the shores of Lake Onega, capturing Kondopoga, Porosozero and finally Medvezhyegorsk on October 23rd. Subsequent operations saw the Finnish forces advancing prudently at the edge of their logistical lines, first of all advancing towards Povenets in the freezing cold, before blowing up the locks of the Stalin canal. With the advent of winter, Finnish troops were ordered to dig in and halt offensive operations in Karelia. Overall, this was a massive victory for the Axis as the Murmask railway was cut in several places: Lukhy, Medvezhyegorsk, Petrozavodsk and the Svir.
This was not the full extent of Finnish operations, though. Hanko, the Soviet naval base, had been surrounded in the first days of the war by Finnish troops. In addition, minefields had been set up around the base, but a blockade had been ineffective due to the size of the Finnish navy. Hanko however still needed to be reduced, as its approaches guarded the entryway into Helsinki. The Finns had to wait for the Germans to push forwards in the Baltic States to finally spring into action.
On October 16th, a German task force led by the battleship Tirpitz met with a Finnish task force led by the coastal defence ship Ilmarinen [2]. This one was to lead the German group through the minefields near the Aland Islands, turning towards Hanko. In fact, the operation came to intercept the first Soviet evacuation convoys. With the Siege of Leningrad demanding every man the Soviets could spare, Hanko had been deemed useless and needed to be evacuated. However, the Finns saw the concentration of naval assets ready to sortie, and initiated “Operation Tiger”. Tiger had been a plan established with the Kriegsmarine in order to destroy the Soviet Baltic Fleet and the forces at Hanko back in February 1941.
As such, on this day in October, the Germans were ready. The Soviet transports were of course not alone, but the Soviet escort was nowhere near sufficient. Three Soviet destroyers were sunk by naval gunfire for the loss of the lone German destroyer Z-27, while the old battleship Marat would lose its duel with the much heavier Tirpitz, soon joining its escorts at the bottom of the Baltic. In addition to these losses, the Soviets would lose a further two destroyers to air attacks in the following hours, along with numerous submarines. The convoy that tried to run to Leningrad was ripped to shreds by the Germano-Finnish force and the Luftwaffe.
The disaster of October 16th would be the first and last naval engagement involving the Soviet Navy, which already had been mauled during the evacuation of Tallinn two months earlier. A few days later, the cruiser Kirov was knocked out in Leningrad by German bombers, rendering any sortie too risky to attempt. Instead, submarines and fast craft would evacuate the defenders of Hanko, who would be regularly pummelled by the guns of the German and Finnish ships. In all, once the fortress finally surrendered, only 7,000 troops had made it to Leningrad out of the 30,000 present at the beginning of the siege.
However, Finnish leadership, despite these victories, became wary. Germany had not won the war, and had hardly even reached Moscow, let alone the Baku oil fields. As such, Mannerheim and the Finnish leadership were now starting to look for a way out. They were careful in making no statements about Greater Finland, and always kept the door open to negotiations. The American embassy in Helsinki became one of the busiest spots, and the Finns tried their hardest to make the Americans interfere: if they could guarantee a peace treaty, Finland could withdraw from the war with their gains intact.
But soon, Mannerheim came to realize that Stalin wasn’t exactly a man you could negotiate with. Finland had been annoying for now, and other than cutting the Kirov railway, had not done any major stings to the Soviets. As such, Mannerheim swapped his strategy. If he could not force the Soviets to make peace by being cautious, he would need to gain something worthy of being traded for. And there, he was not lacking in choices. All he had to do was choose: Murmansk, or Leningrad?
[1] With the northern front going a lot better, Stalin is more on edge and slips up. As a result, the Americans don’t threaten Finland as much as they did in OTL and it allows the Finns to be more aggressive.
[2] OTL Ilmarinen got really unlucky with the mines, so this time the sailors notice the paravane being dragged and the ship lives to fight another day.
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On this topic, a slowed German advance means less panic among the transport of Belgium's political prisoners and them moving south at a regular pace, so the Bloodbath of Abbeville also doesn't happen. Which leaves Van Severen alive and thus the leader of Verdinaso. Which opens up a big what if in both the Belgian government in exile and occupied Belgium for what path Verdinaso will take.
I think there also already was mention in a note that a division, a Free Belgian one iirc, that will be the first one to enter Sofia. So Bulgaria will be sticking with the Axis
20 days earlier than OTL. So now an Axis "Minor" nation steps forward... An appropriate development of the of theTL's theme.
The OTL siege lasted 68 days. I'd say 20 days is more than "a little".
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I've remmembered an old RTS about Soviet Naval Infantry during WWII called Red Tide. First missions were about Odessa and if you loose the first one then in the defeat screen you'd be told that your actions resulted in very early fall of Sevastopol as there wasn't evacuvated troops from Odessa.
In all likelihood Van Severen is judged too much of a security risk and he gets sent off to Canada or the West Indies, so overall not too much of a butterfly if not for the fact that maybe Verdinaso will survive the war and even then...
Free Norwegian one! That plan hasn't changed for now. But Bulgaria's "allegiance" is very fickle...
Yes, it still cut it down by a consequent margin.
Yes, though very early seems rough. About 20,000 men were evacuated OTL from Odessa, a bit less than half ITTL. But Sevastopol will have more defenders this time around because of the reduced number of trapped Soviets in Uman.
A battleship duel in the Baltic is way cool, even if it was one-sided especially with the quality of Soviet seamanship. Did the Ilmarinen score any smaller kills? The reds still have a Black Sea fleet, though that this was the "last engagement" suggests they're wise enough to stay in port. The Finns are doing well alright. But given they've already totally cut it off and rendered it useless to Soviet logistics, would taking Murmansk actually improve their negotiating position substantially? Leningrad is a much tougher target, but it would be FELT.
Interesting. I was entirely unaware of American pressure on Finland OTL being a major factor in holding them from pushing further. Just how much influence did they have?
IOTL Stalin was ready to negotiate:
(J . V. STALIN TO F. ROOSEVELT, August 4, 1941)
I can't believe he would be so adamant in a worse situation.
BTW, in July 1941 he was ready to make certain territorial concessions to Poland too in exchange for Anders' army fighting in the USSR.
I'm not completely sure but a lot of articles mention that the U.S were the ones negotiating with Finland and were the ones that threatened them as to their position on the Kirov railway.
He was certainly ready to make concessions but not the loss of all of the territories won during the Winter War. At least not yet.
Chapter 35: Operation Barbarossa Part III – Vengeful Spirits (August – September 1941)
August - September 1941
Operation Barbarossa
Operation Barbarossa
The Germans had celebrated Operation Barbarossa’s exceptional start, but were now also worried. Indeed, to support their feat, they had called upon all of what the Luftwaffe had to give in order to completely annihilate the Red Air Force. The problem was that these air units were now needed elsewhere. The British front needed to be reinforced, the Greek front had to be maintained so as to not let the Allies take the upper hand, and, most of all, the Reich needed to be protected!
In the end, the Germans would need to slow down their air campaign, and choose a front where these air assets would be less needed. In the end, with the fall of Smolensk and the pressing need to take Kiev and rush to Leningrad, it was chosen to leave Army Group Center with a smaller air cover, with the expectation that the Soviets were too spent to effectively counter-attack. A decision that would later prove fatal.
In the north, Rommel and Von Manstein were closing in on Leningrad. With the fall of Novgorod at the end of July, efforts were made to try and take Luga, where the Soviets were keeping the link with Northern Estonia, which had until then stood against the tide of the German Panzers. However, there, in marshy and swampy terrain, the Soviets stood firm. At Luga, the Soviet forces managed to hold Manstein’s forces in check for three days before having to retreat, their line having thinned too much, and Rommel having managed to drive his Panzers from Novgorod towards Chudovo, threatening encirclement.
At the same time, the German 18th Army continued forwards, taking Narva on August 7th, thus closing the door to any possible relief of Tallinn. The city itself quickly came under siege by Von Kuchler’s forces, who collaborated heavily with the Estonians who gleefully gave away much of the Soviet positions [1]. The Soviet high command, wishing to preserve troops, gave the order to evacuate the city to bolster Leningrad’s defences. From August 15th to 18th, thousands of troops would be ferried out of the city, though at high cost. Mines claimed just under a hundred ships of all types, which sank in the shallow waters of the Baltic: a total catastrophe for the Soviets which would be repeated at Hanko just two months later. Estonia had fallen to the Germans, and the Estonian flag briefly flew on top of the Tallinn fortress, before being promptly replaced by the Swastika. For Estonia, only the Western Estonian islands remained, which would be cleared during the months of September and October from the Soviet forces which still occupied the area.
Towards the west, Rommel’s advance had proven faster than even the Soviets expected. Combined with Manstein’s Panzers breaching the line at Kinguissepp, the Soviets found themselves in a race against time to get to Leningrad. Overall, because of their already thin positions, the Soviet Army did not lose many men in the Luga pocket, which was only meant to delay the Germans. In the meantime, to try and break out units, a counter-offensive was launched towards Lake Ilmen and Novgorod, but failed. Though, in this defeat, it tied down units which would otherwise have been needed to possibly breach the line at Leningrad, though this is unlikely.
Manstein and Rommel’s forces met at Gachina on August 25th, their eyes now firmly set on Leningrad. With the Finns coming in from the north, it was now only a matter of time before the city would be encircled. The Germans thus continued their offensive at the beginning of September, striking along the Volkhov river. Mga fell on August 29th, thus severing Leningrad from the rest of the Soviet Union by rail, with the first German forces reaching Chlisselburg on the banks of Lake Ladoga just a day later. Leningrad was encircled.
The Germans did not stop there. Thinking they could press their advantage, the first divisions started to move into the city, assaulting the Pulkovo heights on September 5th and pushing the Soviets down towards the city. However, while both Manstein and Rommel wished to assault the city, it was not to be. With waning air support due to the events in the south, and worsening logistics, the Germans had to stop their advance there. Hitler, for his part, announced that he would wish to starve out the city, instead of storming it. Rommel was disappointed, and went to ask for the Fuhrer’s permission to take it with the forces at his disposal. It reportedly took an hour of backs and forth between the two men, but Hitler finally relented. However, Rommel would have a reduced number of divisions since Hitler had set his eyes on Moscow, and would need to wait for several things to launch his assault: the closing of the Oranienburg pocket, and the clearing of the left bank of the Volkhov. Still, Rommel expected that by December, he could finally assault the city. For the general the objective was now clear: he would have his photograph on board his tank with the Nazi flag behind him, raised on the Winter Palace! After all, he already had his picture taken with the same flag on the Catherine Palace in Pushkin… [2]
At the same time, to the south, the Soviets were preparing for their great battle against the Germans in Kiev. Kirponos had managed to hold Korosten out of reach, protecting the northern flank, but Guderian was slowly sending forces southwards from Smolensk to outmaneuver the defenders. To the south, Von Rundstedt had also bypassed Kiev and was aiming for the Dniepr on every front: Nikolaev fell on August 18th and Kherson on August 23rd. However, no bridgeheads were taken: the Soviets had managed to withdraw and properly dig in, annoying the German high command.
Though, with a weakened position, the Germans certainly tried. At Zaporozhye, they were repulsed, but at Dnipropetrovsk, the 13th Panzer Division managed to capture one bridge and secure the city, on September 2nd. The Soviets furiously counter-attacked this isolated position, which, supported by the Luftwaffe, managed to hold at the cost of staggering losses. Though this concentration of means also allowed the SS of the Viking division to secure another bridgehead, at Cherkasy, three days later. This bridgehead would also be counter-attacked by Soviet forces, but the damage had been done and the 9th Panzer had managed to slither through and expand it. It wasn’t all bad news for the Soviets, though, as they successfully repulsed bridgeheads at Kherson and Nikopol, stopping a bridehead from forming on the southern side of the Dniepr.
In the meantime, Army Group Center’s forces began their large encirclement cut from Smolensk down towards the south. Gomel fell on August 18th to Guderian’s Panzers, with the Soviets offering determined resistance all along the Panzers path. With hampered logistics and marshy ground to cover, the advance slowed down, much to the Germans’ annoyance, though the Ukrainian border was still reached by September. German forces took advantage of the weaker resistance in this area to establish bridgeheads over the Desna and aimed at the Dniepr.
Kirponos, in Kiev, saw the danger coming, but was powerless to stop it. After his heroic defence of Korosten and his perceived heroics in Kiev, the Soviet high command wished for him to hang on. And this meant keeping his best units facing the west, right where the Panzers were not striking [3]! Kirponos thus petitioned Budyonny, who in turn pestered the Stavka to at least give up Korosten to shorten the line. These efforts did pay off, likely coinciding with the German forces crossing the Dniepr and the very real possibility of a massive encirclement if nothing was done.
With the great encirclement looming, Soviet forces counter-attacked from Bryansk to blunt and even stop Guderian’s advance southwards towards Konotop. The Soviet air force gave a maximum effort on the day, flying no less than 4,000 sorties, thus putting a massive strain on Luftwaffe forces. Guderian’s advance stalled, but eventually gained back its momentum. With this setback, another counter-attack was ordered on September 3rd, with Soviet forces already tired. This counter-attack was disorganized and lacked proper air support, dooming it to failure, and with it, the fate of the Kiev pocket was thus sealed.
For Guderian, the counter-offensive still had taken wind out of his sails. He lacked forces to properly close the Kiev pocket, and spent a few days arguing to get the forces he wished in order to properly launch his offensive. Once this was done, he resumed his advance south and took Chernigov on September 10th. The fall of the city prompted the Soviets to evacuate all of their forces from the left bank of the Desna, which at this point did not amount to much regardless. This however put Kiev in an almost untenable position. Budyonny tried to ask for the Kiev front to be withdrawn: to no avail. Stalin ordered Kirponos to hold [4]. Budyonny himself was replaced with marshal Timoshenko, though this one had no real idea that the Bryansk forces were ghosts and would never be able to relieve the Kiev forces.
In the meantime, Guderian continued to push southwards, along with the Panzers that had established their bridgeheads to the south. The objective was the town of Lubny, which was quickly under siege on September 12th. Only the determined Soviet resistance stopped the two massive German pincers from closing, time during which the Soviet commanders bickered about what to do [5]. On September 15th, Timoshenko begged Shaposhnikov to withdraw the Kiev forces. The next day, the Germans closed the encirclement, trapping almost 700,000 men.
Stalin for his part was unimpressed. He categorically refused Timoshenko, then Shaposhnikov and Vasilyevsky’s pleas to withdraw Kirponos’ forces while the German lines were still thin. The Stavka had to persuade Stalin for these forces to withdraw to better positions, and finally the order to abandon Kiev was given. Kirponos did not wait for the orders to come in to break out, but, panicked, the Soviet forces lacked coordination. This did not mean that they did not experience some amount of success. In several occasions, Soviet forces managed to break out and even encircle German forces themselves!
But the German war machine had started to crush the Kiev pocket. Slowly, individual units were encircled and picked off one by one. Noting that order was collapsing, Kirponos personally took command of a wide group. Along with generals Vlasov, Bagramian and Kuznetsov, he organized a massive breakout attempt on German forces where he thought them to be weak: at Zhurivka. In the meantime, Timoshenko, Budyonny and Khrushchev had managed to escape by air. General Kostenko, of the 26th Army, was not as lucky and was killed during a Luftwaffe strike while retreating. On September 19th, German troops occupied Kiev, though sporadic fighting would still occur until the end of the month.
Kirponos and his group for their part had managed to assemble a force large enough for an organized breakout. Knowing that individual attempts had low chances of succeeding, he charged head first into the lines of the 95th Infantry Division, who were completely caught off-guard. Kirponos had struck at lines in which he knew no tanks were present, thus enabling his force to punch through, benefitting from the element of surprise and the lower bite of the Luftwaffe. Despite the Germans’ dogged resistance, Kirponos rushed to Pryluky fast enough for the Germans to be overwhelmed by the attempt. Many units were left behind, but on September 22nd, Vlasov’s troops were the first one to make contact with Soviet forces around Romny. Kirponos himself would escape with Bagramian and Kuznetsov on September 23rd. Guderian did manage to use his Panzers to cut off several units which failed to completely overwhelm the 95th, but the damage had been done: Kirponos had managed to escape along with 85,000 men towards friendly lines. And despite the 620,000 men dead, wounded or captured, the “escape of the generals” would leave a very sour taste in Guderian’s mouth.
Not to mention that at the same time, the Soviets had been met with much more success northwards! At Smolensk, Army Group Center forces were left alone against the Soviets, who were considered to be completely beaten. But on September 6th, Marshal Zhukov and his Reserve Front went on the offensive! Because of the lessened Luftwaffe presence, the goal of this offensive was simply to retake Smolensk from the enemy. Having seen the Panzers move south, Zhukov had waited to launch his offensive, and when it hit, the Germans were caught completely off-guard!
This was not one of the weak counter-offensives of the start of the war, this was a coordinated assault on the three infantry divisions guarding the Smolensk area. Soviet tanks rushed from the north at Demidov, with Soviet tanks overrunning the German positions at Potchinok, in a move reminiscent of the German army’s pincers at Uman or the Dvina! The shocked Germans held their ground, but for once, the Luftwaffe seemed to have more trouble than usual. Pounded by the bombs, the lines slowly melted down, until the impossible seemed to be drawn: Smolensk risked encirclement.
Hitler did not like this at all: Smolensk was supposed to be the first stepping stone to Moscow! But in reality, there is not much he could do. The 78th Infantry Division, in Smolensk, was being battered and if nothing was done, faced annihilation. In the meantime, while the Soviet advance would not go much further than this, it was clear that unless Guderian had some Panzers to send, Smolensk could not be held. Thus, after three days of dogged fighting, the 78th evacuated Smolensk towards the already cursed city of Katyn. On its left and right, the 137th and 292nd Infantry Divisions stopped any attempts by the Soviets to try and exploit their limited success, especially with the return of the bird with the Black Cross.
The damage had been done, though. On September 13th, the Red Flag flew over the ruins of Smolensk, sign that the Soviets were not done fighting and that they would keep attacking to preserve every inch of their territory. It almost made Stalin forget that, to the south, a great encirclement was looming in Ukraine.
But for Hitler, the loss of Smolensk was unacceptable. Operation Typhoon would soon begin, and the first city to fall would need to be Smolensk! Or, even better, if the Soviets that had so brazenly spat in Hitler’s face could be encircled, it would wipe the shame of this first setback! In December, Hitler thought, the Nazi flag would be flying on Red Square, and this would soon be forgotten.
In fact, the Germans would never even see the Volga.
[1] The NKVD massacring hundreds of prisoners before leaving probably had something to do with their enthusiastic collaboration.
[2] OTL Rommel’s ego was out of control, and he loved the attention. So, him setting himself the goal of being “the one who took Saint Petersburg” would become almost an obsession.
[3] Pretty much as OTL. Kirponos was a smart commander and knew that Guderian was coming: he just couldn’t take his best units off of the western side of the front.
[4] Stalin was scared that a withdrawal would be chaotic and result in massive pockets like Uman, and that in the chaos the Soviets would also leave a bridgehead for the Germans and get pressured from one more side in addition to the north and south.
[5] As OTL. The Soviets thought one moment that the situation was fine and that the officers on the ground were overreacting, and the next that a great disaster was going to happen.
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Seems the south is going overall similar to OTL despite Romania's success, but the center has encountered a severe setback. Time for Hungary and Slovakia to pull their weight. Huh, no advance to the Volga, Despite the Germans performing similar to OTL on average? I quite wonder how the south will go. Perhaps the fall of Bulgaria to the free Norwegians will force Romania to withdraw its divisions, preventing it from supporting a push to Stalingrad?
Rommel's (mis)adventures on the Baltic are are forming a pretty fun subplot! His ego definitely got the better of him through, his panzer force is unsuited to urban fighting. He'd do better leaving a siege force to starve Leningrad while directing the tanks south-east to support the advance on Moscow.
Rommel's (mis)adventures on the Baltic are are forming a pretty fun subplot! His ego definitely got the better of him through, his panzer force is unsuited to urban fighting. He'd do better leaving a siege force to starve Leningrad while directing the tanks south-east to support the advance on Moscow.
Hehehe, I had completely overlooked the fact I was responding to the author when I wrote that
Verdinaso may prove to survive the war, if heavily damaged. With Van Severen interned in Canada, even if he would personally command Dinaso's to join the resistance (which I consider a given) I doubt very little of that would reach Belgium. The fact that there's still plenty of pro-German sentiment among the ranks and the period up untill the Germans are stopped in the Soviet Union saw this spirit of the age where people thought a new status quo had come will probably lead to a loyalist Verdinaso and a collaborationist Verdinaso. I could see Wies Moens joining back up with the collaborationist one but dropping out of collaboration like he did IRL. But there's also the fact that a important piece of information on the reach of Verdinaso, the list of secret members, is just lost to history. Verdinaos may prove to be influential in the post-war building of the Benelux. And on the more comedic note, I can totally see the arch-oppertunist Degrelle going with the same line Van Severen would be toting. "Loyalist Belgian from the first hour" instead of the "fascist from the first hour" stuff he was spouting from his exile in Spain.
AG North is faring better, AG South is the same overall (with less Soviet losses) and AG Center is doing worse.
Kirponos not dying will be a good point for the Soviets and the extra troops will be badly needed.
Overall the key thing to remember is that while things are going well, the Luftwaffe is taking serious losses that it can't exactly replenish.
Yes but Rommel's big ego will not let him get anything else than a great victory, and if he has to sacrifice a few Panzers, so be it.
Verdinaso's pathway post-war would actually have better chances if he framed it as a "pro-Royalist party". By leveraging Van Severen's positions on Hitler (very defavorable), he could easily say "I was loyal to the King all along", and the King being isolated, he could frame it as the Government pushing out Verdinaso in order to further isolate the King. King Leopold might very well welcome this support and this way Verdinaso could transition from a fascist party to a monarchist one, but that depends on how Van Severen wants to play things, I suppose. As for Degrelle, he had made his positions clear prior to the war even reaching Belgium, so there's no saving him.
I didn't know the Rommel myth was a thing in OTL Russia. It definitely won't exist here as his units definitely will be as brutal as any other in their partisan repression.