Map Thread XXI

[FireCrispyHistory]

If this is a nazi victory, then why does it look like Free France exists? And is the netherlands still around, just in exile? Does the Soviet Union still exist, with some client states? And if it is nazi victory, why does Germany not have their old colonies back from Britain? Other than some things that catch my attention, like why Japan still became the weebland it is today, and the fact that the arctic water is still there from the worlda map, but other than that, this is a good map.

Nazi Victory scenario, variant No. 900,823,022
View attachment 750009

 

[FireCrispyHistory]

DUDE WTH
how do i get it to show as a image
I USED THE INSERT IMAGE BUTTON

Copy and Paste the image in the message.

 

[Fox-Fire]

nazi victory

It's still a Nazi victory. Not an absolute one though.

 

[Library of Alexandria]

If this is a nazi victory, then why does it look like Free France exists? And is the netherlands still around, just in exile? Does the Soviet Union still exist, with some client states? And if it is nazi victory, why does Germany not have their old colonies back from Britain? Other than some things that catch my attention, like why Japan still became the weebland it is today, and the fact that the arctic water is still there from the worlda map, but other than that, this is a good map.

Nazi victories are usually non-Endsieg. You can't really get the Nazis to win in areas just like North Africa or Indonesia, and I highly doubt the USA would have much issue funding colonial regimes against the inevitable resistance from native populations.

... Also, he probably just forgot to change the water colour. Used to happen to me all the time.

 

[Techno Angel]

I also have a problem that I can't post images unless they're really small, it's probably because I'm posting from my phone, isn't there any way around it?

 

[Daniwani]

If this is a nazi victory, then why does it look like Free France exists? And is the netherlands still around, just in exile? Does the Soviet Union still exist, with some client states? And if it is nazi victory, why does Germany not have their old colonies back from Britain? Other than some things that catch my attention, like why Japan still became the weebland it is today, and the fact that the arctic water is still there from the worlda map, but other than that, this is a good map.

Nazi victory in Europe doesn't magically give them naval supremacy and the ability to project power overseas to Britain, nor does it give them any stakes whatsoever in the Pacific, which more or less a completely separate war OTL (to the point people still insist on claiming WWII starts in 39 because ' that's when it became global!', in spite of that not happening until 41).

Was taking back like Tanzania even a war goal of the Third Reich?

 

[Crazymachines]

Nazi victories are usually non-Endsieg. You can't really get the Nazis to win in areas just like North Africa or Indonesia, and I highly doubt the USA would have much issue funding colonial regimes against the inevitable resistance from native populations.

... Also, he probably just forgot to change the water colour. Used to happen to me all the time.

What's wrong with the sea ice color

 

[Crazymachines]

That's not it. You can still have genocide without killing or mass murder. The term cultural genocide exists for a reason - and you have examples like the Canadian residential schools, or say, what's happening in Xinjiang.

The UN defines genocide as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnic, racial or religious group, as such." These five acts were: killing members of the group, causing them serious bodily or mental harm, imposing living conditions intended to destroy the group, preventing births, and forcibly transferring children out of the group. Victims are targeted because of their real or perceived membership of a group, not randomly."

... and I think it's a pretty good definition.

To my understanding ethnic cleansing's end in and of itself is simply to just remove an ethnic group from a region - they can survive for all it matters in other places, the main thing is that they should be 100% gone from the region. (of course the sad truth of it is that there exists a considerable overlap).

Ethnic cleansing and genocide differ little from those who are affected by it. Also, why are we talking about this in...you know, the MAP thread?

Well, it's a map thread of history, and the discussion of maps naturally may well lead to talk of the sordid aspects of history - like genocide and ethnic cleansing and mass murder and population displacement and etc, so it should be no major surprise that it happens.

I mean, talking about the aesthetics aspects of maps is fine and dandy and all, but when maps involve cases with genocide and ethnic cleansing (even if only implicitly said so), it should be no surprise that the discussion may well spill over...

But I'll stop talking since it seems like a bit of a controversial (and perhaps flame-war-fuel-ey) subject.

Amazing. I post one map of the middle east and it spawns a multi page argument about genocide that's still ongoing.
All of you please stop

 

[Balkanized U.S.A]

All of you please stop

Seconded.

 

[FireCrispyHistory]

Honestly, the map thread is not the place for that. If it directly involves a map, sure, but don't try to make the map thread all about genocide vs ethnic cleansing. That seems more of a Political Chat conversation than a Map Thread conversation to me.

 

[H.Flashman(VC)]

Amazing. I post one map of the middle east and it spawns a multi page argument about genocide that's still ongoing.
All of you please stop

Tip: Next time avoid the word 'ideal' in your post, without a clear explanation. I've seen that that word does invoke these moral discussions.

 

[FALman762]

Hey everyone I'm looking for a map of 1997 OTL Earth to use for a ISOT mapgame, can anyone send one please?

Edit: Nevermind, I've been able to get one

 

[shearsforest]

A map of Vatican City, as part of my City-BAM series.

 

[Untreow]

Does that say Tsardom of Montenegro?

Does that mean Šćepan Mali formed a dynasty?


What's the POD?

The POD is in 1700 with Prince William Duke of Gloucester not succumbing to any illness, so the survival of the Stuarts in Britain (sort of)
Technically its sadly not little Stephen, the circumstances just aren’t there with no exiled and killed Russian Emperor to be an imposter of. But the flag is taken directly from him and the events I have are inspired by it, albeit later on, with a popular soldier in the region convincing the people he had a more illustrious lineage than he actually did, I'm afraid don’t know much about Montenegrian history and I haven’t much else written down though. I’m open to suggestions and advice.

 

[TheHandsomeBrute]

My Central Powers 1917 Victory map:

 

[Dagoth Ur]

Italy and Greece and Mexico join Central Powers, Ottomans join Entente? How did that happen!

 

[TheHandsomeBrute]

Italy and Greece and Mexico join Central Powers, Ottomans join Entente? How did that happen!

The Americans get stuck in Mexico during their Pancho Villa Expedition.

The Greeks and Italian are neutral throughout the conflict.

The Ottoman lose all their German advisors and commanders due to them being recalled over an argument right before the Gallipoli landings. The landings are successful and the Ottomans surrender before any major German and Austrian reinforcements can be sent.

 

[Gokbay]

The Ottoman lose all their German advisors and commanders due to them being recalled over an argument right before the Gallipoli landings.

Since those advisors weren't much help in Gallipoli I fail to see how lack of them would mean Ottoman defeat.

That said, why would Germans recall them over "an argument"? Ottomans not losing is a plus for the Germans in pretty much every way (Not letting Russians get resources from the Entente trough the Straits, Another place to take land from Russia to weaken it (like Brest-Litowsk, Eastern Europe), and finally Berlin-Baghdad railway and easy access to Iraqi oil fields for the Germans if Ottomans are able to keep it and allied with them).

 

[TheHandsomeBrute]

Since those advisors weren't much help in Gallipoli I fail to see how lack of them would mean Ottoman defeat.

The recalls cause confusion throughout the entire Ottoman Army. Liman von Sanders was central to its functioning and was responsible for the defense of the straits.

That said, why would Germans recall them over "an argument"? Ottomans not losing is a plus for the Germans in pretty much every way (Not letting Russians get resources from the Entente trough the Straits, Another place to take land from Russia to weaken it (like Brest-Litowsk, Eastern Europe), and finally Berlin-Baghdad railway and easy access to Iraqi oil fields for the Germans if Ottomans are able to keep it and allied with them).

It could be something as silly as the German being feed up that the Ottomans don't listen and are trying to make a point that the Turks need them more then the Germans need the Turks be recalling them. I haven't thought through the whole affairs that lead up to the recall but strange things have happened.

It wasn't good thing that the Ottomans were forced out of the war but it is not meant to be a complete and utter German victory over the Entente.

 

[Zachary Jones]

Since those advisors weren't much help in Gallipoli I fail to see how lack of them would mean Ottoman defeat.

That said, why would Germans recall them over "an argument"? Ottomans not losing is a plus for the Germans in pretty much every way (Not letting Russians get resources from the Entente trough the Straits, Another place to take land from Russia to weaken it (like Brest-Litowsk, Eastern Europe), and finally Berlin-Baghdad railway and easy access to Iraqi oil fields for the Germans if Ottomans are able to keep it and allied with them).

This. The Ottoman Empire was not an incidental ally to be easily abandoned, but a crucial part of the German imperial strategy. Also, the idea that the Entente would gift a neutral Greece nearly the entirety of the Mengali claims is a little much to say the least.