Don't forget the Empire of Japan, it was a British Ally in the war, so the US could have a two front war. Pacific and Atlantic.
U.S. Joins the CP in the Great War
- Thread starter Hawai'i Hiki No
- Start date
Yes, but the only other place to really use the Marines is in the Pacific, which will be much more of a strain on logistics. Besides, the US will want to take out these bases before Britain does start basing forces there. You have to realize that all of the Allies are going to be pretty stretched already, and I wouldn't be suprised if they decide Europe is a bigger priority than the Americas and Pacific. As for Japan, they're not the power they'd become later in the Century...Imajin said:
Would the U.S. attempt to aid the Indian Nationalist movement?(There was a German attempt in 1915 I believe)
Would the British pull Ships from the Atlantic to help the Japanese in the Pacific(Although the RN was Topps, the IJN of 1914 left MUCH to be desired),
or would they let the U.S. have free reign in order to concentrate on the Atlantic, where I believe they have the Advantage.
Would the British pull Ships from the Atlantic to help the Japanese in the Pacific(Although the RN was Topps, the IJN of 1914 left MUCH to be desired),
or would they let the U.S. have free reign in order to concentrate on the Atlantic, where I believe they have the Advantage.
The Easter Rising in 1916 could swing differently with US aid. In OTL rebels seized Dublin, fought a bloody street battle and died in a hail of gunfire and artillery. Suppose butterflies let the word get out to nationalists in the countryside. When the rebels first launch their attacks, the UK panica, and troops are slow coming. In the meantime the US ships artillery, machine guns, and more rifles to the Irish troops.
Ireland becomes a bloody, bloody, second front for the English when James Conolly (Irsih Citizen's Army leader) pulls his forces back over the river Lieffey.
America would make a perfect ally for the Irish republic. the US had, and has, a huge Irish population who would support the rebels. Wilson's ideas of self-determinism would jibe nicely with the Irish rebels agenda.
Thoughts?
Ireland becomes a bloody, bloody, second front for the English when James Conolly (Irsih Citizen's Army leader) pulls his forces back over the river Lieffey.
America would make a perfect ally for the Irish republic. the US had, and has, a huge Irish population who would support the rebels. Wilson's ideas of self-determinism would jibe nicely with the Irish rebels agenda.
Thoughts?
An Irish Rebellion supported by the U.S. definitly plausable. Hell, Ireland could serve as a port for U.S. and German ships and submarines blockading the Home Islands.
Max Sinister
Banned
If the US defeat Japan, they could enlarge their empire in Asia - Philippines, Taiwan and Korea. And if the Germans decide to concentrate on Africa, they might sell their colonies in the Pacific to the US.
luakel said:
It partly depends on the POD and how things develop. The US would have great difficulty crushing Canada in the short term because, presuming no build-up before the Dow it doesn't have the troops. I remember reading one AH which had a US Dow in I think spring 1915 after a clash between British and US ships in the North sea after the US tries to convoy goods to Germany. Someone point out that at the time the troops the Canadians had in training in Canada, [ignoring those already abroad] outnumbered the entire US army. [May not be including the national guard].
In the longer run I can't see anything but defeat for the allies. They might have a qualitative edge while the US recruits, equips and gains experience but with a war against Germany at the same time weight of numbers would tell. You would have to have the allies play at the top of their game, i.e. say no French plan 17, a successful Galipoli and a big victory at Dogger Bank, followed by early response to convoys when the subs start attacking for them to fight the central powers to a standstill. And this is with the mess the Germans made of their position as well.
Only exception might be in terms of motivation. Depends on what triggers the US to enter the war but if it is divisive and they get bogged down in bloody fighting in Canada with frontal attacks proving very costly you might see opposition to the war become a factor.
Steve
MrP
Banned
stevep said:
I can't help but agree. We'd need a British HH to write an Entente Victorious scenario. It'd presumably go something like this.
Austria invades Serbia.
Germany invades Belgium.
USA declares war in support.
Ottoman Empire also does.
Italy declares the Adriatic off-limits.
France realises what's happening and sends all available troops to Belgium.
Britain does the same.
Germany gets a bloody nose and her advance stalls.
Austria suffers the same, but her greater numerical advantage outweighs this, and she makes slightly more progress.
The Austrian fleet accidentally blunders into the Italians and war starts.
Britain and France divert ANZACs to aid the naval assault on the Straits. Pushed through quickly and with vigour, it succeeds.
The Ottomans are forced to a negotiated peace, and foodstuffs from Russia start flowing to Britain and France.
Canada advances into America, burns stuff and retreats.
America gets riled and launches an ill-advised counter-attack which ends up mangling her small army.
She's forced onto the defensive for a few months, till her vast army is raised.
Not forced to worry about USA public opinion, the Germans begin their unrestricted U-boat campaign much earlier. The Entente soon realise their problems and use convoys. This increases German U-boat casualties.
Argentina is brought to the Entente by appealing to her ABC rivalry.
Ditto Chile, with suggestions about far cheaper Dreadnoughts.
A naval clash off Brazil sees Argentina's navy victorious.
The US is compelled to send warships to protect Argentina. One BB is sunk en route by RN subs operating out of Bermuda.
The Western front line stabilises ,much as OTL, except that stupid salients, like Ypres, are avoided. Allied casualties are thus less.
Meanwhile, a failed RN attempt to sink German destroyers boosts the Kaiser's confidence. He sends the main body of the fleet to bombard British coastal cities.
British Intel has already received the codes from Russia, and lays a trap for the Germans.
The Battlecruisers ensnare the German fleet and lead it onto the main fleet. Too late do the Germans realise their predicament, and their fleet is badly mauled by capital ships and torpedoes. Barely 1/3 of their capships are now serviceable, while 2/3 of the RN forces are useable.
Meanwhile, Samsonov has died and been replaced by somebody Rennenkampf doesn't hate.
Their armies coordinate properly, defeating Prittwitz and opening the way to Berlin.
Moltke sends ever more men to halt the Russian juggernaut, fatally weakening his Western troops.
Finally, something snaps in Belgium, and a huge hole opens in the German lines.
Meanwhile, the Russians have been temporarily stopped for lack of supplies.
But Germany's loss of the High Seas Fleet has let the RN dispatch a taskforce into the Baltic. It supports Russia, and places itself under Essen's (that the right name?) command.
A supply route is opened through both the Baltic and the Black Sea.
Meanwhile, poor Italy is failing to advance through the mountains.
But Bulgaria and Romania have witnessed the collapse of Turkey and Austria's difficulties with interest.
They declare war on Austria.
Combined with Russia's offensives, this proves the final political straw.
Austria begins negotiations, and Germany follows suit.
America may or may not, but meanwhile Imperial troops can go there rather than France.
Anyway, it's very unlikely that anyone would suffer such a run of luck. But in HH world . . .
Max Sinister said:
I was thinking the same, and maybe Ireland becoming a German Client-state(maybe not), but I belive the U.S. would have the advantage in the Pacfic by 1916. By then England cant afford to send ships because of the Atlantic, and Japan will run out of material, While the U.S. secures its gains(Taiwan, Okinawa, possibly Korea)
I wonder if a Jutland style Naval Clash will occur, any thoughts?
Nah.. thats vaguely plausable. Highly unlikely, but potentially it could happen.
In HH world Britain, shocked by the USA discovers Nuclear weapons in 1915 and in about June Berlin, Vienna and numerous American cities are wiped off the map.
By 1917 the USA is no more and the states are but small dominions of the Empire...