I would say that multiple religions all having their origins in backwater desert regions and then go on to dominate much of the world for centuries would not only come off as unrealistic, it would be seen as lazy writing since clearly the TL writer couldn't think of any other way that a religion COULD be created.
What are some Pre-1900 real world historical events that would seem ASB and highly unrealistic in any other timeline?
- Thread starter The Banker
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Chingis Khan. There were many steppe empires before, but no leader of steppe nomads had such spectacular carrer as Temujin.
The so called "Miracle of the House of Brandenburg!" I mean, come on, the Austrians and Russians crush the Prussian army, leaving Prussia on the ropes and with one good fight left for total victory and they just decide to abandon the whole campaign? Ridiculous. Top it all off, one his greatest enemies dies soon after and their successor promptly switches sides? Ridiculous!
Total Depravity and Perseverance of the Saints are two key Calvinist beliefs. They are the T and the P of the classic TULIP formulation of what Calvinists believe. The statement I made, was of course somewhat tongue-in-cheek, but it is true that Calvinist societies, being higher trust, actually fight really really well militarily, significantly punching above their weight. I've joked with some of my friends, that the social technology of Fixed Pricing, introduced by another fringe Protestant group (George Fox of the Quakers in England) would be a seriously overpowered military technology if it were implemented in a game like Civilization---their forums would be buzzing about how crazy it was.
Total depravity is the belief that mankind in general is utterly unable to fix its sin problem without serious divine help. Perseverance of the Saints is the belief that you basically can't lose your salvation (Calvinists often refer to that as Election).
Well, he was able to get the help of the people that civilization had been sacrificing, and who provided him with most of the manpower..
Yup, but that’s part of the ASB. That only eventually happened because at the outset, they happened to defeat a tribe, that gave them women as “reparations”, and one of them became Cortez’s concubine, who also spoke the various dialects, and was able to learn enough Spanish to become his translator and confidant.
That their whole party wasn’t slaughtered right after leaving the beach is amazing!
ric350
Matching myths about Quetzalcoatl and having a superstitious Aztec emperor also helped.
…the Aztec Empire was founded in 1428. Under a century before the Spanish and their native allies conquered it.
True that Aztec Empire has been around pretty short time but Mesoamerican culture and religion has remained pretty unchanged much longer.
It was not accidental, the Crusades was a reaction to the break down of law and order in the region, which resulted in Christian pilgrims being victimized. The growing number of pilgrims was also a result of growing wealth and stability in Europe. A weaker Europe would not have started the Crusades and a stronger Muslim state controlling the Levant would not have created a casus belli for the Crusades.
Uh…so?
The Aztecs were newcomers to the region, who had made a lot of enemies in their short stay and rapid expansion. You might as well say that any conquest of anywhere is ASB on those grounds, which would be absurd.
I mean...so did the assyrians, and I dont think anyone is going to agree that a hundred guys(hebrews maybe?) barging into Nineve, being invited there by the order of the assyrian king, and then conquering it all isnt ASB
Yes they would have the massive support of all the angry oppressed people who the assyrians made enemies of, but it'd still be a insane feat requiring ridiculous amounts of luck
Yes they would have the massive support of all the angry oppressed people who the assyrians made enemies of, but it'd still be a insane feat requiring ridiculous amounts of luck
The thing is, the Spanish had two advantages those hypothethical Hebrews would not have. One: they were signifivcantly more technologically advanced than the Aztecs were with guns, stell weapons, horses, etc. Two: a large amount of the aztecs were dying because of diseases.
Might explain the Welsh at Gorazde but it doesn't explain the Dutch at Srebrenica...
You MAYBE have continuity going back to the migrations from Tula (Toltecs) in the mid-12th century. The culture is different enough at Teotihuacan (4th-6th century) that it's difficult to identify the religious and cultural practices based on known analogues from the Aztecs. And there were certainly many cultural differences in Postclassic Mesoamerica compared to the Classic. The League of Mayapan and its successors are quite different than the Classic Maya of Tikal or Palenque, like for instance only the latter regularly used the Long Count.
That said, you certainly can say that Cortes with his actions led directly to the destruction of an ancient civilization, even if the last native state wasn't conquered until 1697.
Fair for the former point, but for the second the assyrians had plague outbreaks quite often, one even coincided with an eclipse which made them freak the hell out
You know it is quite ironic, I do think the Aztecs were the civilizational equivalent of a star that burns brightly, including that they would have burned out quickly. Their way of doing things just wasn't sustainable not to mention unpopular, it is how the Spanish got them really.
But the ironic part is that had the Spanish arrived 30ish years later than they did the Aztec empire probably would have been just a bad memory. Yet by being conquered by Spain and in such a memorable fashion they have become immortalized. Think of all the games they star in, the movies and definitely not to overlook a country named after them. It is quite the historical fluke that they left such a vast and enduring legacy. By all rights they ought to have been forgotten, a short lasting polity that yet had some notable success, known only to big history buffs. But because of their failure more than their success they are a household name the world over.