This! For those that don’t want to bother with the whole article: child mortality rates drag down the avenge. But if you made it to adulthood, your life expectancy was basically the same as now.
What Mistress Boleyn Wants (Mistress Boleyn Gets)
- Thread starter desmirelle
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Not in my family it was not. Admittedly its based on the ones Gran could trace in records so big gaps where church records were lost but if they made it to adult, 50-60 was about as far as they got pre 1700. Its what I based my comment on, might be 70's around but for heavy manual labourers, like my family was till post WW2, they would, based on what Gran found, be a very small number compared to today.
I need my head examined. I never did post the missing time and the written parts for 1549 - 1555, instead posted what was due before AnnaRegina1507 pointed out the error . I went back to copy and paste, only to find it's part of the missing docs. So, I've got it hand-written and will have to retype it all. Apologies to all.
Mark1878
Donor
Docs do not exist until you have 3 copies, one on your disk, one in a local backup and one backed up off site. And the first and third being in dropbox, iCloud or MS cloud don't count as two. (because if you delete one you delete both)
@Mark1878: I have a hand-written document. That's a document, really it is. It's old-school, but it's a document. You can have just ONE copy for docs to exist. I'm just angry at myself for not noticing. And in so making a ton of more work for me on the timeline.
For the first bit of going back and filling in the missing years: Princess Victoria-Marie has been re-named Renee - while re-reading, I decided that Marie of Guise ain't naming her daughter that with Brandon's wife and first child by said wife were named Victoria. And not Marie, since Henry VIII's first child was Mary. Of course, MoG could have mooted Marie and been overruled by the council, who thought it was insulting to Henry VIII's first surviving child. Would explain her (MoG) being so hostile towards the council, too.
1549 - September
September 1549
The Regency Council found itself with a contentious member when the meeting of the 6th began. Dowager Queen Marie attended. It would not have been such a problem had not the Council been reading a report from the Governor of Calais that French troops had arrived nearby, on the French side of the border, complete with arms. Marie insisted that the French would not be so dishonorable as to begin a war without informing England. However, there were confirming reports of the events that the council could not ignore. King Henry IX concurred with the majority of the council against Marie's single voice against 'hostilities' without cause. The Duke of Norfolk was tasked with taking the troops across the channel, to Marie's fury.
The other item that irritated the council was the Dowager Queen's continued insistence that spouses be found - not just for the young King, but for her own children. Once again, she was informed that while names for spouses would be taken, no active consideration would be made until after the King's coronation on his 14th birthday.
Norfolk began the task of bringing together and readying the men would be travelling with him to Calais come the beginning of October.
The Regency Council found itself with a contentious member when the meeting of the 6th began. Dowager Queen Marie attended. It would not have been such a problem had not the Council been reading a report from the Governor of Calais that French troops had arrived nearby, on the French side of the border, complete with arms. Marie insisted that the French would not be so dishonorable as to begin a war without informing England. However, there were confirming reports of the events that the council could not ignore. King Henry IX concurred with the majority of the council against Marie's single voice against 'hostilities' without cause. The Duke of Norfolk was tasked with taking the troops across the channel, to Marie's fury.
The other item that irritated the council was the Dowager Queen's continued insistence that spouses be found - not just for the young King, but for her own children. Once again, she was informed that while names for spouses would be taken, no active consideration would be made until after the King's coronation on his 14th birthday.
Norfolk began the task of bringing together and readying the men would be travelling with him to Calais come the beginning of October.
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@Ogrebear, you are correct about the King.
Marie, on the other hand, is deciding that since her husband was King, as his widow, she should rule and she's very pro-French and thinks Calais is rightfully France's.
And, on the brighter things, this refit on my 'puter seems to be working and after Bible Study, I should be able to get something up.
Marie, on the other hand, is deciding that since her husband was King, as his widow, she should rule and she's very pro-French and thinks Calais is rightfully France's.
And, on the brighter things, this refit on my 'puter seems to be working and after Bible Study, I should be able to get something up.
But before I continue: I just realized Cromwell has just been doodling along in the background, running the numbers on monasteries and convents, spy networks, whatever.
I've sort of just left him, so I don't know what H8 did with him, rank-wise. Anyone feel like contributing? Did he get an Earldom as OTL, a Barony, or remain an 'upstart' among them?
I've sort of just left him, so I don't know what H8 did with him, rank-wise. Anyone feel like contributing? Did he get an Earldom as OTL, a Barony, or remain an 'upstart' among them?
I thought he'd been given an Earldom and without all the marriage drama of OTL, he doesn't lose his head.
1549 - October
October 1549
The Duke of Norfolk was surprised to find a messenger awaiting him in Calais. The messenger, in )II's livery, waited as the the Duke took the letter and retired to read it with his son and others. Even more surprising to both Norfolk and Surrey was the wording of it. Two sentences in particularly recalled the meeting that decided Norfolk was to go to Calais. The sentences were striking echoes of Dowager Queen Marie's comments about sending troops. Norfolk copied the letter and the Earl of Surrey returned on the tide to England. It was a troubling matter to the old soldier. He had little regard for women dabbling in politics with a single exception. Sister Duchess thought like a man when she sat at Council and left her womanish ways in her rooms - this thought, however, he kept to himself. He wouldn't have his niece knowing it.
Surrey presented the letter to the first to Regency Council members he found: Charles Brandon and Cromwell, Earl of Essex. Brandon sent a messenger for Sister Duchess and she arrived around midnght for the consultation.
"My father believes it comes from the English Dowager Queen, perhaps though one of her ladies. I know one of them is seeing a secretary to the French Ambassador." Surrey explained.
Anne frowned. "All of her majesty's correspondence is read because of her comments while the King's father was alive. But I don't believe the ladies are searched if they're going somewhere within the area the Dowager is in. She could be smuggling letters to the French Ambassador. She's from Calais: her mother had a Frenchwoman for a grandmother and the rest of the family is English. If she's in love with a Frenchman, she may do as the Dowager asks." She mused.
Charles Brandon shrugged. "It could also be letters intercepted in Calais. Letters about the matter were sent before his Grace left England. Or it could be a guess by Henri; it's a tactical maneuver and we've all learned mostly the same things. Reinforcement of troops is a common enough military move, even when the other is just running maneuvers. He could make a logical guess and be right, just sending the letter to upset everyone - as it has."
"I missed part of the meeting; and my lord father says the phrasing is what the Dowager Queen used during her comments when I was not present." Surrey told them.
The Earl of Essex, who rarely spoke except to advise (not debate), said: "We must set a trap. Marie must know something only we say within chambers. If it gets through, we'll know." Thomas Cromwell was still a man to watch.
"I'll take a letter to my father - " began Howard, but was interrupted by Essex.
"We will send only a verbal message and that will be received by you and given to your father privately, without letters." He raised his boxy body to a standing position, grimacing with pain. "But the verbal message will be known only by us and will be the true results: The Dowager Queen will be misled by what we discuss in the meeting. If all of us could meet at my home after the noon meal, we can have the Regency Council meeting there. She will not come, she does her correspondence then, so that Angeline can take it to her lover. Then we will at least eliminate one weak spot." He stretched painfully. "Since this is an informal meeting, I must go if I am to to see all others save the Dowager tomorrow, I beg pardon for any offense this may cause."
"No offense taken, I'm the youngest and I needs find my bed before I fall as well," the Earl of Surrey said. All left to their own homes.
The Duke of Norfolk was surprised to find a messenger awaiting him in Calais. The messenger, in )II's livery, waited as the the Duke took the letter and retired to read it with his son and others. Even more surprising to both Norfolk and Surrey was the wording of it. Two sentences in particularly recalled the meeting that decided Norfolk was to go to Calais. The sentences were striking echoes of Dowager Queen Marie's comments about sending troops. Norfolk copied the letter and the Earl of Surrey returned on the tide to England. It was a troubling matter to the old soldier. He had little regard for women dabbling in politics with a single exception. Sister Duchess thought like a man when she sat at Council and left her womanish ways in her rooms - this thought, however, he kept to himself. He wouldn't have his niece knowing it.
Surrey presented the letter to the first to Regency Council members he found: Charles Brandon and Cromwell, Earl of Essex. Brandon sent a messenger for Sister Duchess and she arrived around midnght for the consultation.
"My father believes it comes from the English Dowager Queen, perhaps though one of her ladies. I know one of them is seeing a secretary to the French Ambassador." Surrey explained.
Anne frowned. "All of her majesty's correspondence is read because of her comments while the King's father was alive. But I don't believe the ladies are searched if they're going somewhere within the area the Dowager is in. She could be smuggling letters to the French Ambassador. She's from Calais: her mother had a Frenchwoman for a grandmother and the rest of the family is English. If she's in love with a Frenchman, she may do as the Dowager asks." She mused.
Charles Brandon shrugged. "It could also be letters intercepted in Calais. Letters about the matter were sent before his Grace left England. Or it could be a guess by Henri; it's a tactical maneuver and we've all learned mostly the same things. Reinforcement of troops is a common enough military move, even when the other is just running maneuvers. He could make a logical guess and be right, just sending the letter to upset everyone - as it has."
"I missed part of the meeting; and my lord father says the phrasing is what the Dowager Queen used during her comments when I was not present." Surrey told them.
The Earl of Essex, who rarely spoke except to advise (not debate), said: "We must set a trap. Marie must know something only we say within chambers. If it gets through, we'll know." Thomas Cromwell was still a man to watch.
"I'll take a letter to my father - " began Howard, but was interrupted by Essex.
"We will send only a verbal message and that will be received by you and given to your father privately, without letters." He raised his boxy body to a standing position, grimacing with pain. "But the verbal message will be known only by us and will be the true results: The Dowager Queen will be misled by what we discuss in the meeting. If all of us could meet at my home after the noon meal, we can have the Regency Council meeting there. She will not come, she does her correspondence then, so that Angeline can take it to her lover. Then we will at least eliminate one weak spot." He stretched painfully. "Since this is an informal meeting, I must go if I am to to see all others save the Dowager tomorrow, I beg pardon for any offense this may cause."
"No offense taken, I'm the youngest and I needs find my bed before I fall as well," the Earl of Surrey said. All left to their own homes.
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As others have said, he was Earl of Essex. But the other thing that occurs to me is that his son Gregory married a Seymour OTL because he was tying himself to Jane's family as she rose. Has Gregory married differently in this very different England? Just curious!
Also, lovely chapter! Time to go back and reread everything so I remember all the nuances!
Post #650 (death of one of my favorites) has had it's threadmark label and content removed so it will be in chronological order and not a vision of the future. It's still gonna happen as I wrote it.
Don't want anyone new to be as confused as I was.....
Don't want anyone new to be as confused as I was.....
1549 - November
1 - 12 November 1549
The month began with two more letters, a week apart to the Duke of Norfolk. The information it revealed was general in nature and anyone could have sent it: it was common knowledge that Surrey was returning with more troops and supplies. The second letter revealed information deliberately given to Dowager Queen Marie via her ladies (who were informed by the ladies of the 'Sister Duchess'). She wasn't the only person given misinformation, the Earls of Sussex and Essex, along with the Earl of Shrewsbury, were each given different information. The Regency Council knew it must have unimpeachable reason to search any of the Dowager Queen's ladies. Of course, the lady at the top of the suspect list was Marie's favorite: the bold and beautiful Angeline*, born in Calais but moved to to an inherited family farm not too far from Hever. Her father, who had not really liked his shop in Calais, was very happy with rural life.
It was not the life she wanted. When her parents and two younger siblings died in a fire that consumed their home, Angeline wasted no time. She forged a letter authorizing her to sell the family home for a dowry; took the money before her relatives really knew had happened, changed her last name to Parkes, had a wardrobe made for herself, forged a second letter that appeared to be from Queen Christina offering a place as maid of honor to the Queen and by the age of 15 received the appointment to Queen Marie's household. Marie prefer red her after her French ladies went home (Henry VIII had not liked three of the five, the fourth was homesick and he liked the fifth too much for Marie's comfort). They conversed mostly in French: Angeline mimicked the Queen's accent rather than using the English-tinged French of the other ladies. The result was she was preferred by the Queen. At 21, she was angling for a husband with an interesting life and a title; however, for now, she settled for being Marie's favorite.
{*Angeline is obvious not an OTL character. I just needed somebody just a little bold and brassy, old enough to know better but too ambitious to resist. I should have pointed this out the first time she was mentioned, apologies.}
The month began with two more letters, a week apart to the Duke of Norfolk. The information it revealed was general in nature and anyone could have sent it: it was common knowledge that Surrey was returning with more troops and supplies. The second letter revealed information deliberately given to Dowager Queen Marie via her ladies (who were informed by the ladies of the 'Sister Duchess'). She wasn't the only person given misinformation, the Earls of Sussex and Essex, along with the Earl of Shrewsbury, were each given different information. The Regency Council knew it must have unimpeachable reason to search any of the Dowager Queen's ladies. Of course, the lady at the top of the suspect list was Marie's favorite: the bold and beautiful Angeline*, born in Calais but moved to to an inherited family farm not too far from Hever. Her father, who had not really liked his shop in Calais, was very happy with rural life.
It was not the life she wanted. When her parents and two younger siblings died in a fire that consumed their home, Angeline wasted no time. She forged a letter authorizing her to sell the family home for a dowry; took the money before her relatives really knew had happened, changed her last name to Parkes, had a wardrobe made for herself, forged a second letter that appeared to be from Queen Christina offering a place as maid of honor to the Queen and by the age of 15 received the appointment to Queen Marie's household. Marie prefer red her after her French ladies went home (Henry VIII had not liked three of the five, the fourth was homesick and he liked the fifth too much for Marie's comfort). They conversed mostly in French: Angeline mimicked the Queen's accent rather than using the English-tinged French of the other ladies. The result was she was preferred by the Queen. At 21, she was angling for a husband with an interesting life and a title; however, for now, she settled for being Marie's favorite.
{*Angeline is obvious not an OTL character. I just needed somebody just a little bold and brassy, old enough to know better but too ambitious to resist. I should have pointed this out the first time she was mentioned, apologies.}
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