William the Conquerer with no Papal/French backing?

[Zioneer]

I want to make a TL based mostly around the Godwinson dynasty, and I think that, if I prevent William the Conqueror (though he's not going to be called that in this TL) from getting the backing of both the French AND the Papacy, I can get the Godwinsons to last as a dynasty.

I think I can remove his backing by having a POD where Harold is never shipwrecked in Ponthieu, like he was around 1064 in RL.

This removes Harold's swearing of fealty to William, as well as the idea that Harold betrayed William in accepting the crown of England. The French and Normans, if I remember correctly, placed a great deal of importance on "honor", specifically obeying the oaths you swore.

The Papacy, similarly thought honor (and, y'know, not going back on oaths, even if they were probably fake) was important, and this was likely the reason Duke William recieved the Papal banner.

So what happens to William's planned invasion when he can't get the backing of either the French OR the Pope?

 

[MerryPrankster]

About the Papacy, I was under the impression the Popes wanted to reorganize the English Church and the Godwinsons weren't being cooperative, so they supported William's efforts at "regime change" for that reason.

Perhaps Harold makes some concessions to the Church?

 

[Zioneer]

About the Papacy, I was under the impression the Popes wanted to reorganize the English Church and the Godwinsons weren't being cooperative, so they supported William's efforts at "regime change" for that reason.

Perhaps Harold makes some concessions to the Church?

Hmmm... How about Harold allows the Church to appoint Bishops, instead of the King appointing them? The Investiture Controversy was only a few years after Hastings, so avoiding that for England could help.

 

[Zioneer]

*bump*

Can I have more feedback on my idea, please?

 

[robot]

It seems everything back then had to be sealed by the Pope. Without the papal blessing, he would have been on his own. Since there was no apparent cooperation on the part of the English church there was nothing for William to worry about. I’d rather turn the question around and ask what would have happened, had William refused to go ahead with the invasion. He was too close to France proper which in turn executed papal orders without a miss. For William to break this chain would have been dire. He would have been on his own against the whole world.

 

[MarkhamS.Pyle]

Well, the Norman dukes...

... were a rough bunch. Not even excommunication phased them, or mounting expeditions against bishops.

You may want to look for a POD in Sicily and Apulia instead, where a previous batch of Normans were beginning to get crossways with the Papacy (and everyone else).

 

[Xenos]

I really don't think William would have set sail without Papal approval. It would make his duchy of Normandy highly vunerable.